Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:09:17 PM)

Hi, everyone. I'd like to welcome all the guests who have joined us. I'm looking forward to an interesting discussion.

George Spiro Dibie, ASC (Mar 24, 2001 1:11:44 PM)

Our members are very concerned about an impending strike. We keep hearing that there's a deal to be made. But our members suffered a lot during the last commercial strike. What do you think about the current situation with SAG and the writers?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:12:03 PM)

Interesting question. The situation is different this time with the strike against the motion picture producers and episodic TV producers than it was with the SAG strike last summer with television commercials. The difference is primarily last summer the advertisers learned they could leave the country and continue to work using non-union actors. And a tremendous amount of that went on.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:13:01 PM)

Myself, I worked on many shows in Canada last summer. The impact for me was somewhat lessened because the producers would take me overseas. The impact on my crew that normally works out of LA was significant in that they got left behind. Typically I was only able to bring along my camera assistant, and sometimes I couldn't even do that.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:14:01 PM)

This time around, the situation is different in that if the actors go out on strike and you need Tom Cruise, you need Tom Cruise. Or any other leading actor. So everybody worldwide will be affected this time around. You can't substitute with somebody else and all the various production centers around the world will be affected by a slump.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:14:58 PM)

Also, I'm hearing that as far as TV is concerned, the networks plan on replacing a lot of dramatic series with more reality-based TV shows. So I think some of our members will work on those shows, but I don't think they will require the same size of crews. So yes, we will definitely be affected by the strike, but I think everybody worldwide will be affected by the strike.

PA from Pa  (Mar 24, 2001 1:15:35 PM)

I've been working for about a year as a PA for a cable advertising company in the midwest. I'd like a career as a DP on national campaigns. How can I make the transition? Do I need more school (I have a communications degree)? Or can I climb the ranks of my company and try to move to NY or LA?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:16:17 PM)

I would recommend that you move to one of the major production centers for TV commercials. I would say that's New York, Dallas, Denver, LA, Chicago. I would try to get work on as many television commercials as you can as a production assistant.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:17:30 PM)

What budding production assistants need to realize is that all department heads – the cameraman, the gaffer, the key grip, the sound person – are constantly in need of new talent to recruit to bring up through the ranks. People to be proteges. So we are always watching the production assistants who are working on our crews to try to spot someone who would be worthy of our investing our time.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:18:32 PM)

What that means is the person who is showing initiative, who is always standing ten feet from the camera, ready to jump in and help when asked, is going to be the person that sticks out in our mind the next time I have an opening and need someone who could be, say, a loader on a show.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:18:48 PM)

My point is, try to get on crews working in any position you can get. Then do the very best job you can. And you will be noticed. And you will begin to move up.

Moderator  (Mar 24, 2001 1:18:58 PM)

Regarding your last answer, is there a scenario when a PA can be overambitious on a set?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:19:10 PM)

Yes. Production assistants are like children. They should be seen and not heard. They should also be careful to only help when they have been asked. There are issues of on-set safety and also on-set responsibility. Each department head and their crew are responsible to the cinematographer and to the production company to fulfill their job. And if a PA jumps in without being asked or without being directed, they might either damage something or ruin a shot, etc. So be observant for the beginning of your experience and only really do what you're asked to do.

lenser (Mar 24, 2001 1:20:34 PM)

Are there still individuals inventing new tools today like the TeraFlite, or is that impossible in today's economy?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:20:49 PM)

No, there's invention going on all the time.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:21:27 PM)

For example, I gave a recommendation to Leonard Chapman at Chapman Studio Equipment. They are the people out in the San Fernando Valley who build all the big mobile cranes we have used in our business for 45 years, such as the Titan Crane.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:21:58 PM)

I had a situation where I needed a very large crane, such as the Akela crane, which has a reach of 75 feet. It is a tremendous tool, but takes a long time to set up. And then once it is set up, it takes a very long time to move to get another shot. So long that it may only be a one-shot-per-day piece of equipment. that would be too expensive for many of the budgets I work on, if you hire a

very expensive piece of equipment and then only use it for one shot a day.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:23:06 PM)

So I went to Leonard Chapman and recommended that it take the conventional short arm off an Apollo crane and replace it with a very strong Mitchell mount. And then we could place any

remote crane on this driveable truck and move from place to place on location.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:26:22 PM)

This new invention is really a combination of devices that already exist. But now it gives myself and other cinematographers the capability of using very large cranes. Right now the reach is 46 feet. And use it for multiple shots during the day because the vehicle can drive from place to place on your location with the crane fully assembled.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:26:22 PM)

The first one was so successful that Leonard is converting another Apollo and then a Titan crane with an arm with a reach of greater than 75 feet.

jim (Mar 24, 2001 1:27:51 PM)

What are your predictions for the Academy Awards tomorrow night? Who do you think will take it for cinematography?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:29:30 PM)

I think it's going to be close. Between Peter Pau and Crouching Tiger and John Matthiheson and Gladiator. I think all of the nominees showed phenomenal work in their films.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:29:55 PM)

My vote is going to go with Gladiator - John Matthieson. And my reasons for that are: I realize the voting body of the Academy is made up mostly of people who tend to vote for big, expansive, epic movies. And Gladiator fits that description.

FunTimeFlipper501 (Mar 24, 2001 1:30:29 PM)

I remember a helicopter crash last year or so killed a camera crew shooting car footage in remote

Alaska somewhere. What do you think about the state of safety in the industry?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:31:02 PM)

I knew the director. And it actually happened in northern British Columbia.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:31:14 PM)

I think the state of safety and the procedures in effect now are very good. You have to realize that one of the most dangerous things you can do in the motion picture industry is film from a helicopter. Because when you are shooting from a helicopter, you are operating it in the speed range and altitude where the helicopter is most vulnerable if anything goes wrong.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:32:00 PM)

So we continue to try to use the very best equipment and the very best pilots. But it is an unfortunate fact that it is very dangerous. There have been other situations where grip departments have put camera cranes into high tension lines, and scaffolding towers into high tension lines. And these situations are very avoidable and people need to be very conscious of where they're setting up their equipment when they're in the area of those lines.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:33:03 PM)

I have been very lucky in my 25 years in the business in that I have never had anyone seriously injured and I hope and pray my luck will continue.

Mika Skjril (Mar 24, 2001 1:33:18 PM)

Can you talk a little about HD video. Is it really more expensive to light than film, merely switching out a film loader for a video engineer. Plus HD has limits in daylight, yes?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:34:05 PM)

Let me think a second here.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:34:57 PM)

The video format, because of its inherent higher contrast or narrower lattitude, requires more care be taken with lighting. And therefore, sometimes it causes you to work more slowly. With regard to the overall net savings on a feature film, I have read that it tends to be a wash. Because the digital to film out stage is so expensive, it offsets any savings you might make during the filming process.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:36:22 PM)

Within our union members, we have digital technicians who are joining the camera crews on video shoots and the loader is remaining and becomes a camera utility person who helps with cable wrangling basically.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:36:55 PM)

As to video in bright daylight, at this time the Achilles' heel of video acquisition is light values from mid-tone to white clip is a very narrow range. Yet in the exterior world, there is a tremendous amount of information there. So I know this is an area the video camera designers are working on to improve.

ginocam (Mar 24, 2001 1:37:42 PM)

Do you own your own cameras, and why? And.are there any types of commercials you won't do.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:37:56 PM)

I presently own five cameras. I have an Arri 535a, three Arri 435es, and one Arri 35-3.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:38:49 PM)

I own them because I do enough work to afford the convenience of always knowing where my equipment has been, how it was handled on the last job. Also, when the town gets busy, I never have to be concerned about camera or lens availability.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:39:33 PM)

With commercials, I tend to not enjoy tabletop commercials, such as food, pouring milk, cereal pouring, etc. I did a lot of that back when I worked with Sid Avery, but I prefer to do things

on a grander scale. This is not to say that tabletop work is not a highly-refined art. It's just I prefer other things.

Ave790  (Mar 24, 2001 1:40:11 PM)

It seems like there are lots of commercial directors who are moving into features. Do you think the same think will happen with commercial DPs?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:40:38 PM)

Well, there are many DPs that got their start in commercials and moved into feature work: Alan Daviau, John Toll.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:41:17 PM)

To show you the level of excellence in the knowledge gained in shooting commercials, John Toll won an Academy Award for both his second and third features he ever shot. And he gained all the experience that made that possible through the shooting of commercials.

L-Baxter (Mar 24, 2001 1:41:33 PM)

I remember during the actors strike, a car commercial production company caught flak for using non-union actors in blackface to replace a black union actor. Now I here the cars in some car commercials aren't real either due to digital duping. What's next – all digital actors?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:42:02 PM)

First I want to speak about the blackface actor. That was a situation that the Screen Actors Guild politicized to embarrass Ford Motor Co.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:42:38 PM)

There are many times where we change a stunt driver's appearance to more closely match the actor they are doubling for. An example is there are many times we put a blond wig on a male driver so he can double for a woman actress. And when we do that, none of the women in the world are offended.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:43:11 PM)

Speaking about the digital actors. I suspect we will come to a time where there will be the possibility of having completely digitized, realistic looking people. I think of all the digitizing of things, that is going to be the most difficult because of the myriad subtle, yet perceptible, things like facial expressions, body language, that don't exist when you're duplicating a car within the digital realm.

Tippy Two (Mar 24, 2001 1:44:11 PM)

How do you think inventions like tevo - allowing the TV audience to skip commercials - will affect the industry?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:44:30 PM)

I think we're going to see a major paradigm shift.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:44:40 PM)

For example, in Europe the sport of soccer is very popular. Soccer does not lend itself to built-in breaks, as we have in football and basketball where there are many timeouts in the action. Soccer is played continuously. To solve the advertising problem, they literally split the screen. The upper two-thirds is the soccer game and the bottom third is a commercial that runs.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:45:37 PM)

I think with the advent of tevo, we will start to see this sort of split-screen implemented so you will not be able to watch the show without seeing the commercial at the same time.

Advert Adam (Mar 24, 2001 1:45:51 PM)

Does the commercial industry allow you the chance to explore film/tv opportunities?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:46:12 PM)

I could choose to shoot episodic television or feature films if I wanted to. And many of my brothers and sisters have done that.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:46:41 PM)

I have been lucky enough to remain busy enough in commercials, and I really enjoy shooting commercials, so that's where I have concentrated all my energy. But I'm not prevented by anyone from exploring that option if I wanted to.

Eye&Eye (Mar 24, 2001 1:46:59 PM)

What type of conflicts do you experience in trying to create art while at the same time being forced to sell something with your creation?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:47:12 PM)

Very good question.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:47:26 PM)

There is always a challenge to continue to make beautiful looking images, while at the same time continuing to sell the product. I'm lucky in that I tend to specialize in automobile commercials.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:47:54 PM)

Today's automobiles are beautiful. They are like rolling metal sculptures. So it is quite easy to achieve beautiful looking images when the subject is such a beautiful thing.

lenser (Mar 24, 2001 1:48:13 PM)

Is there a budget squeeze on commercials? How are you affected?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:48:26 PM)

There is always a budget squeeze in commercials. I haven't worked on a commercial in 25 years where the first words out of the producer's mouth aren't, "But we don't have enough money, what are we going to do?"

Shane31 (Mar 24, 2001 1:48:51 PM)

What's your favorite commercial that you shot? why?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:49:01 PM)

Wow, there are many.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:49:13 PM)

One of my favorite commercials ever was one I did for McDonald's called "New Kid." The director was Rob Lieberman and it was a 60-second spot shot for the Super Bowl a few years back, where the old retired man goes to work at McDonald's for the first time. Yet the young ladies, knowing that a "new kid" is coming to work, think that it is a young boy their age. At first, they're disappointed he is not their age, then they come to love him because he is such a wonderful person. To tell that entire story in 60 seconds was an amazing experience.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:50:40 PM)

Another favorite commercial of mine was where we did a one-take, 360 degree move around a car while it drove down the highway at 60 MPH. To figure out how to do that, and then make it happen in a three-day period, was a remarkable experience.

Tammy (Mar 24, 2001 1:51:03 PM)

Are there directors you work with regularly, or do you prefer to work with lots of different people?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:51:20 PM)

There are directors I work with regularly. Some of them are Richard Blair at a company called Pandemonium and Jim Zoolelian. But there are many that hire me on a one-time basis for my capabilities.

George Sprio Dibie (Mar 24, 2001 1:52:18 PM)

Do you prefer to shoot your commercials in the USA? What's the difference in skills and talent working with overseas crews?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:52:53 PM)

Everywhere else is downhill from Hollywood.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:53:28 PM)

I find that while the crews in other states of the US and in other countries have a lot of enthusiasm and are great workers – I find I can go 50% faster with my L.A.-based crew than I can anywhere else.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:53:40 PM)

The primary reason is the depth of experience. My key grip is a second-generation grip who started working in the studios when he was 18 years old. My gaffer has been working as a gaffer for 35 years. When you have that depth of experience, there is almost nothing that between us we have not seen before.

Steve H (Mar 24, 2001 1:54:35 PM)

Any advice for a somewhat new Commercial DP with a strong reel, as far as finding an Agent?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:54:58 PM)

Let me describe how I found my agent.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:55:10 PM)

I had learned that many agents are very irritating to production company producers. I literally went around and asked production company producers which agent they liked the most. And they said Sherry Russo and that's who I went with.

Eye&Eye (Mar 24, 2001 1:55:40 PM)

Do you think there's a correlation between commercials and music video – especially in terms of storytelling?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:56:01 PM)

I think music videos are one of the places where great ideas are born. And many things in the visual arts are first tried in either music videos or commercials. Music videos have the advantage in that it's a longer form, typically four minutes. And they have more time to tell a more complex story.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 1:57:09 PM)

But as I mentioned earlier in the "new Kid" commercial, it is still possible with highly skilled writers, directors and cinematographers, to tell a complex story in 30 or 60 seconds.

David Heuring  (Mar 24, 2001 2:00:05 PM)

Bill, can you talk about how the fine degree of control over the image in electronic post is now coming to the feature film arena and how will that change the cinematographer's responsibilities and capabilites over the next 10 years?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:00:56 PM)

A fine example of the transition between the sort of control we've enjoyed in commercials with electronic post-production transferring over to feature film is the current film Oh Brother Where Art Thou shot by Roger Deakins. There, they scanned the entire movie into digital and manipulated it and printed it back out to film.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:01:37 PM)

These capabilities are going to enable the cinematographer to have a vastly broader range of looks that they can achieve. As good as the film stocks are, they also tend to lock you into a range of looks, and many cinematographers over the years have been constantly trying through various laboratory processes, what's called ENR, to modify how the images look.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:02:29 PM)

As digital finishing becomes available to a greater number of feature film cinematographers, we will start to see a vast array of different looks we have never seen before.

jim (Mar 24, 2001 2:02:37 PM)

Do you think its true that you don't have to light with video because it can all be fixed in digital post? And is digital post diminishing the role of the DP?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:03:02 PM)

No.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:03:13 PM)

I think you do have to light with any image-capture format because it is the lighting that evokes the emotion in a scene, as well as composition, camera movement, etc. Digital post will greatly enhance the role of the DP in that, as I said in my previous answer, there will be much more capability in terms of tailoring the look to suit the mood or emotion of a particular film.

J-Rich (Mar 24, 2001 2:04:09 PM)

Do you ever find yourself getting type cast as only shooting certain types and/or styles of spots?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:04:22 PM)

Yes, that happens.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:04:34 PM)

Over the years I have shot everything from cereal commercials to jet fighters. And I happened to do very well at shooting a series of BMW commercials early in my career, and have become known as "the car guy."

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:05:06 PM)

Not that that's bad, because as I said, cars are beautiful. They are a lot of fun to shoot, and as far as the amount of spots made, they keep changing the cars every year. Also, because they are a big-ticket item, the budgets tend to be larger.

lenser (Mar 24, 2001 2:05:33 PM)

Who are some of the commercial directors and shooters who have influenced the film industry? Ron Dexter, Sid Avery?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:06:09 PM)

As I said in my preliminary interview, I believe that Ron Dexter was one of the most significant influences in the film industry as a whole, beginning around 25 years ago. Even though he is not known to many people, he invented many of the things that are common today, such as using converted telephoto still camera lenses on motion picture cameras.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:07:03 PM)

Ron did early high-speed photography using photosonics cameras. He invented a dolly-track system that enabled us to easily do big dolly shots in rough terrain. He invented a high hat that sets up in seconds in rocks and gravel and grass. His idea was to go out on location and get as much shot as you possibly could when the light was right and he would build tools to enable himself to do that.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:08:12 PM)

I think the most significant thing he taught me was that I did not have to accept the existing equipment as a limitation, that I was free to either modify the equipment myself, or if I wasn't capable, to ask the manufacturers to modify it for me. Many cinematographers think that they have to accept the limitations our equipment imposes upon us. And that's nonsense. If you're going to do revolutionary work, you have to bust the mold of the limitation of this piece of gear, and either change it yourself or cause it to be changed, to create the vision that you see.

Kodak Kirk (Mar 24, 2001 2:09:02 PM)

What is your opinion emerging technologies such as 24P and its ability to capture the likeness of film?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:09:45 PM)

I find it interesting that people are becoming hung up on this desire for the video capture medium to emulate 35mm film. I think this is a passing controversy.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:10:23 PM)

I believe that ultimately 24P and the subsequent video capturing formats that will follow will be accepted by cinematographers as another tool to allow us to capture our and the director's vision.

Leonard G.  (Mar 24, 2001 2:10:32 PM)

Do ad agencies have too much say in the "look" of your commercials or do they let you do your own creative thing at this point?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:10:46 PM)

It depends.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:11:00 PM)

Some agencies invite me to the telecine session and want me to help them create the final look. Other agencies, many times based out of town, take the negative back to Detroit or wherever and work with local telecine artists to create the look without me.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:11:36 PM)

I try to maintain a good relationship with the telecine artists, wherever they are, and give them a lot of input, by either using scrap photography from magazines, previous commercials I have done, Polaroids I shoot on location -- as a means of communication with the telecine artist.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:12:10 PM)

For my dailies telecine, because that happens at night, in between the days I am shooting, I use a microcassette recorder, and every day at the end of the day tell the telecine artist what I did and what I expect it to look like. As he is setting up his machine to do my work for the day, he listens to my recording and it is almost as if I am sitting there beside him talking to him. And it has worked out to be a very successful method of communication.

Steve H (Mar 24, 2001 2:13:11 PM)

Back to the Agent question. I was also wondering what to look for or look out for in an Agent, besides what you covered. Also some appropriate questions to ask them when meeting with them the first time.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:13:47 PM)

You don't want a lot of other cinematographers in their "stable" who have the same style or do the same kind of work that you do.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:14:00 PM)

Otherwise, you will constantly be in conflict with them for the same jobs within your own agency.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:14:44 PM)

You want to make sure your agent is reputable and does not mislead the production company producers with regard to your availability, your capability, whatever. Because ultimately that will become transparent and it will damage their reputation and ultimately yours.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:15:07 PM)

In interviewing them, I would want to see the work of some of the other cameramen they represent, to see if they are up to the level of quality of what you feel your work is.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:15:22 PM)

You want to be amongst your peers. You don't want to be the least capable cameraman the agent has. But at the same time, you also don't want to be the most capable cameraman because then that might mean that agent might not actually get called for the jobs you're capable of.

G.A.Zero (Mar 24, 2001 2:15:59 PM)

Do you ever shoot commercials for the cinema? And if so, do you do them any differently? How?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:16:16 PM)

Occasionally, I have shot commercials for cinema. When we do, we are careful to compose for the 1.85 format. We also are aware that now many times commercials are finished on videotape and

then transferred to film for release in theaters.

Steve4 (Mar 24, 2001 2:17:00 PM)

Where do you weigh in on film versus digital production?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:17:26 PM)

Digital acquisition is an emerging technology. Film acquisition is a very mature technology that is continuing to grow.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:17:48 PM)

Eastman Kodak just released a new film stock a couple of months ago. They will continue to release new film and print stocks in the future. There seems to be this obsession amongst the people who promote digital acquisition systems to try to emulate 35mm film production.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:19:12 PM)

But as I said in my interview at the beginning of this chat session, until digital imaging can bring something to the party that I can't get any other way, it may be a sometimes useful tool, but it's not revolutionary if the best it can do is inadequately simulate what I can already do with film.

Moderator  (Mar 24, 2001 2:19:25 PM)

Bill, any parting words of wisdom for our audience?

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:19:35 PM)

Ha, ha!

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:19:49 PM)

I am greatly honored by the IATSE for asking me to come down here and speak with all of you.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:20:04 PM)

It was quite unexpected. I see myself as just one of the people down there in the trenches, working making images, making a living. To be singled out as someone who is doing something special is quite an honor because I think – I modestly believe I'm just one of the people out there working.

Bill Bennett  (Mar 24, 2001 2:20:47 PM)

I want to thank George Dibie and Bob Fisher for inviting me down to speak with you and I thank the technical crew who is helping me put this on the air now.