Transcript
of Live Chat with
Michael
Goi, ASC
Mar. 27,
2004
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:10:15 AM)
Good morning or good afternoon depending on your geographical location. My
name is Michael Goi and it is my pleasure to chat with you about whatever
is on your mind. A special hello to all my friends in Chicago.
GSD (Mar 27, 2004 10:12:09 AM)
Michael, this is George, (Spiro Dibie, ASC). I want to thank you for all of
the things you do for our Guild and our members. Just a few weeks ago, you
went to New York to participate in seminars representing our point-of-view
at a major trade show. A few weeks later, you, Allen Daviau, and Stephen
Lighthill went to Detroit with me to conduct a lighting workshop for colleagues
in the Midwest. I know how much they appreciated your willingness to give
so much of yourself. Micheal, you are a source of inspiration for all our
members and a role model for the younger ones. Thank you.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:13:10 AM)
Thank you, George, for involving me in all the Guild's activities. It is my
pleasure to participate in so many things that benefit our members, and you
are the person who makes that all possible. Stay in bed today, George, and
get healthy.
Lenser (Mar 27, 2004 10:14:00 AM)
I liked what you said about cinematographers giving back to their fellow cameramen.
Do you participate in the Guild's career coaching program? What's
the best advice you can give an operator looking for work?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:14:58 AM)
I am actually in the career coaching program at the moment. I think what Jessica
Sitomer has done for our members is extremely valuable, and I encourage every
member to take advantage of this program.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:15:33 AM)
A lot of people have been directly helped by her guidance. Whatever your classification,
Jessica can guide you towards reaching that next level that you're searching
for.
SBDP (Mar 27, 2004 10:15:45 AM)
How often do you consult other cinematographers for ideas on shooting a scene?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:16:31 AM)
All the time. I am huge movie buff, and one of the pleasures of being in this
business is having access to all my cinematography heroes when I'm working
on a project. I constantly call other DP's to ask them how they shot a certain
scene and what equipment they used, and I find everyone is very giving with
information.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:17:29 AM)
I'll steal a good idea from anybody who wants to give it to me.
Gino (Mar 27, 2004 10:17:39 AM)
You mentioned an unfinished documentary about a man who died of AIDS and another
about a homeless woman. Can you tell us a bit more about them? Are they projects
that you are shooting for someone else or are they more personal projects,
where you are playing a broader role? Are they produced in Los Angeles, in
what formats, and are there plans for distributing them or are they speculative
projects?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:18:55 AM)
Both of those documentaries were shot on video (Beta SP). They are still not
completed. I do not have any input as to the funding of these projects or
their distribution, and while I have a vested emotional interest in both
of these films I have no direct control over pushing them toward completion.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:19:42 AM)
The footage that we've shot on both is very powerful, and I do hope that they
get completed in the near future. The documentary on the man with AIDS was
shot in Seattle, and the one on the homeless woman was filmed in Los Angeles.
dutch (Mar 27, 2004 10:20:01 AM)
Mr. Goi - In your opinion, what would be a thorough way to test an HD camera
prior to a lengthy shoot? Thanks! Dutch
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:21:17 AM)
Well first of all, I think you need to assess if HD is the best way to go with
that particular project. I like to submit a hi-def camera to different climate
conditions, such as humidity and heat to see if problems such as back focus
or tape sticking is an issue and if I'm shooting in a very remote location
I would tend to push for bringing film cameras instead because I find them
easier to maintain when I'm on a distant location for a long period of time.
I think HD has great potential, but it's not the "magic pill" that
solves everybody's problems.
Ulysses (Mar 27, 2004 10:22:53 AM)
Did Caleb Deschanel talk to you before he started prepping for The Passion?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:23:40 AM)
What do you think Caleb would have talked to me about?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:25:16 AM)
I spoke to Caleb recently because he wanted referrals for crew people in a
location I filmed at last year, but in the time after I shot Judas and
before he shot The Passion we didn't have any conversations. I think
Caleb is a tremendously gifted cinematographer and his work has always been
an inspiration to me.
Laura (Mar 27, 2004 10:25:56 AM)
I saw your wonderful television movie Judas. Was that a 35 mm, super
16 or HD film, and I'm also wondering why it took so long to come out?
Did the timing have anything to do with the release of The Passion or
was that a coincidence?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:26:51 AM)
Judas was filmed in 35 mm in Morocco 3 years ago. I think
the only reason ABC finally put it on the air was because The
Passion was getting so much press and controversy. My hat's
off to Mel Gibson.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:27:13 AM)
I don't know what ABC's reason was for shelving the movie for so long, but
I'm happy it finally reached the TV screen.
Focal Point (Mar 27, 2004 10:27:34 AM)
You said that you got a few letters and calls in response to your letter to
the Los Angeles Times about their Robert Rodriguez article. Did
the reporter or Rodriquez respond? Basically, what did the letters and calls
say…were they people who share your frustration?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:28:50 AM)
The first person who called me when my response was published was Allen Daviau.
I received a lot of calls and letters not just from cinematographers but
producers, directors, and even equipment manufacturers, most of which were
positive.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:30:13 AM)
A lot of people shared my frustration about misinformation on this issue. I
understand Robert Rodriquez did send a letter to Local 600, which I have
not seen. I think it's important for those of us who are on the visual end
of this business to stay abreast of current technology and the best ways
to utilize that technology.
Gino (Mar 27, 2004 10:30:21 AM)
I really wanted to thank you for writing that letter to the LA Times.
I enjoy Robert Rodriguez' movies, but I don't like they way he's
used as the poster boy for the latest digital cameras. Have you ever spoken
with him about this issue? Any chance you might work with him?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:31:30 AM)
I have never spoken to Robert. I understand that he's perfectly happy shooting
his own movies for the time being. I'm actually a fan of El Mariachi,
his first film, but I have no idea what's in store for the future.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:31:58 AM)
If Robert ever wants to chat with me about stuff I'm more than willing. It
would be an interesting discussion. He just had a conversation with Daniel
Pearl and Bob Fisher that will be on the website in about a week.
bobf (Mar 27, 2004 10:32:41 AM)
The current issue of ICG magazine contains an interview with Robert
Rodriguez and Daniel Pearl together. Rodriguez claims in that interview that
the Times reporter mis-stated many of his positions.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:33:18 AM)
I certainly understand being misquoted. In fact, my IMDB listing has so many
inaccuracies that I can't even begin to address them.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:34:17 AM)
My issue with the article in the LA Times was mainly with Sony's marketing
people, and their comments. I think Robert is entitled to his opinions and
what works for him, but I think people who are trying to market new technology
to us should be mindful of what it is we do.
Op_Ed (Mar 27, 2004 10:34:22 AM)
I read a recent interview with Robert Rodriguez where he said that he shoots
his own films, because no one else can visualize the meaning of his words.
How do you respond to that, and how would you feel about have another cinematographer
shoot your script?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:35:58 AM)
Since I haven't talked to Robert directly, I don't have details on his
background in working with other crew people. I personally find that working
with other people who specialize in a certain field makes my job more fun and
makes my work better. The whole collaborative experience on the set is one
of the things that makes this job fun for me. Like I said before, I'll steal
a good idea from anybody!
NY AC (Mar 27, 2004 10:36:17 AM)
Judas was such a moving - and disturbing film. Was it difficult
to shoot because of all the emotion around the subject? Can you speak
about subject matter a bit and how that influences your style?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:37:35 AM)
Judas was produced by Paulist Productions, which is run
by a priest. He started the filming with a prayer and a blessing
and the production was very emotional because so many people involved
had strong feelings about the subject matter.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:38:17 AM)
I'm no different in that respect, but to a certain degree I have to distance
myself a little bit so that I can concentrate on all the technical things
that have to go in to creating that emotion.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:38:46 AM)
Certainly Jonathan Schaech's performance was very inspirational to me because
he invested so much of his own faith into his character. On many occasions
that caused me to alter my lighting plan to suit the rehearsals that I had
seen. Judas, though we started with a definite visual plan, was
a very freely evolving visual experience for me.
Allie (Mar 27, 2004 10:39:59 AM)
Mr. Goi, how do you make a judgement as to whether a script is workable or
not before considering it as a full blown project?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:41:11 AM)
I read a lot of scripts. In retrospect, I suppose 10 percent of them are what
I would call truly great scripts. You choose a project in this business for
a number of reasons –because of the people involved, because of the
opportunities it creates, because of financial reasons, any number of reasons.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:42:12 AM)
It's very rare that I'll choose to shoot a script that I absolutely hate, but
in those instances when I do, I try to find the things about that script
or the production that make it special to me and interesting to me. If I
didn't like what I was doing, I don't think I could get up and go to the
set in the morning.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:43:55 AM)
Most scripts I read lately are extremely ambitious beyond the limits of their
budget, and I respond to those challenges because I think part of my job
is to make a $5 million film look like a $20 million film. Basically, if
you throw me an impossible task, that's where I want to be.
Scarlet (Mar 27, 2004 10:44:19 AM)
What impact has the tax incentive in Illinois had on the local industry there?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:44:52 AM)
I don't know all the details, but I understand that they have eight productions
starting up this year so far. That's a big change from zero productions last
year. Obviously, it's having an impact. Hopefully the momentum will continue.
One of my dreams is to return to Chicago and shoot a movie there.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:45:47 AM)
I think the tax incentives that various states have adopted has been working
to bring productions back to those states. Just look at how many movies have
chosen to film in New Mexico and Louisiana since those states adopted tax
incentives. It's something we sorely need in California.
Phillip (Mar 27, 2004 10:46:31 AM)
Have you been to Canada recently? Is work still plentiful up there? And, on
the same subject, what are you doing, and what can be done, to help the fight
against runaway production?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:47:30 AM)
I haven't filmed in Canada in three years. Work in Ontario has shrunk by 70
percent, so Canada is not the mecca for runaway production that it used to
be.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:48:27 AM)
Runaway production is a serious problem in an ongoing fight. In a way, it's
a malady that has caught up with the film industry because it has been happening
to many other businesses in the United States for quite awhile.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:49:44 AM)
I think how every one of us can help in the fight against runaway production
is to be active with your union. We have strength in solidarity with other
locals in the IA and with other guilds in the film industry. We need more
Local 600 members to participate in political actions that the guild is taking.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:50:25 AM)
There are some people who seem to feel that fighting the Guild is their way
of fighting runaway production. I think those people are very passionate
about what they'd like achieve, but working against the guild and the other
players in this industry is not the best way to go about it.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:52:10 AM)
We have tremendous power as a union if all of us work together towards this
common goal of curbing runaway production, but more of us need to call the
union and find out what's going on and how we can participate.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:53:31 AM)
I know there's an old joke that goes "I paid thousands of dollars to join
the union, and all I got was a pen." Well, I say to those people, you
get out of the union what you put into it. The union wants your participation
in every thing that it does, and it is up to you if you are going to work with
us or be at odds with us.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:54:43 AM)
I'd like everybody to be able to work in their craft and I spend so much of
my time doing projects and seminars with the union to bring more members
together. We can fight runaway production. It's not an impossible task. But
we have to do it with solidarity.
Jane (Mar 27, 2004 10:54:56 AM)
Everyone talks about Canada, but what about all the productions that seem to
be going to Eastern Europe and have been for a while, is this being addressed
as well? Is the fight against runaway production for everywhere is the focus
only on Canada?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:55:50 AM)
The focus is not only on Canada and has never been. There are so many places
in the world where American film productions have been taken to.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:56:34 AM)
We can't just say its a problem with Canada. The union sees runaway production
as a problem whatever country is involved.
Ulysses (Mar 27, 2004 10:56:43 AM)
In an article about Who Killed Atlanta's Children? you talked
about shooting Toronto for Atlanta, without having been to Atlanta. How were
you able to render the city in that way?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:56:58 AM)
Badly.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:58:02 AM)
I studied newsreel footage of Atlanta during that period of time, and numerous
books. In my opinion, though, nothing beats being able to visit the place
you're depicting on film. Since that time, I have actually been to Atlanta
on many occasions, and I'd like to reshoot the entire film.
Scarlet (Mar 27, 2004 10:58:07 AM)
I was moved by your documentary about Cabrini Green. What's been the aftermath
of that film?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 10:59:17 AM)
More residents of public housing projects have gotten the right to manage their
own buildings away from the bureaucracy of the government corporations. Public
housing is still a volatile issue, and will be for quite sometime.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:00:21 AM)
It was gratifying for me to work on that particular documentary because it
opened my eyes to the reality of public housing. 95 percent of the people
who lived in the housing projects that we documented were good people who
had pride in their building and wanted to make good homes for their families.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:00:57 AM)
Unfortunately, in the press, the five percent of troublemakers get all the
attention.
scalz (Mar 27, 2004 11:01:05 AM)
Hello, Michael! This is Dan Scalzo in Chicago. Don't know if you remember me
but we worked together many years ago on some independent features. I wanted
you to know that I am a digital imaging tech/video controller in Local 600
now. I would like to know your thoughts on hi-def/24P... what do you think
of this evolving technology ? Do you think it is going to have a negative
impact on how producers think in terms of budget and justifying the need
for us, or to keep the same number of crewmembers on the same size production
if it was to be shot traditionally on film?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:02:05 AM)
Hi Dan. Congratulations on becoming a DIT in Local 600.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:03:22 AM)
The thing that I find myself fighting is misinformation regarding new technology.
I think every producer in LA has read the same marketing bulletin from Sony
because every single producer I talk to who brings up the desire to shoot
in HD says the exact same things: "I heard it's cheaper." "You
can use fewer crew people." "It takes less equipment."
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:04:57 AM)
Educating these people as to the realities of HD production is a full time
job. The bottom line for me is that I'm excited by all the advances in new
technology for motion pictures but certain things work better for certain
jobs. I find HD to be very grip intensive, so on all my HD shoots, the grip
department doubles. That's not exactly using fewer crew members.
Cot (Mar 27, 2004 11:06:27 AM)
Producers often choose to use HD over film because they say it's a cost savings.
But on the other hand, I've heard people say that HD can and does cost just
as much to shoot as film. In your experience, which is true. And if HD can
and does cost as much, considering there's no film to purchase and development
cost, how is this the case?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:08:10 AM)
HD in production costs less than shooting 35 mm film. HD costs more on the
post production side than conventional 35 mm post processes. I just budgeted
a film and weighed super 16, HD, and 35 mm. For this particular project,
super 16 makes the most sense because our production costs will be lower
than HD and it gives me the flexibility of working with a film negative.
david (Mar 27, 2004 11:08:32 AM)
Two of the pictures you stated you were most satisfied with were directed by
Charlie Carner, is there a special relationship with Mr. Carner and can you
comment on the Director –DP association?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:09:29 AM)
I've known Charlie since our days at Columbia College in Chicago, Charlie is
very faithful to his friends, and loves doing something different with every
movie he makes. It makes the experience of working with him exciting and
different with every project. I have very good relationships with a number
of directors I work with on a regular basis.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:11:46 AM)
Charlie and I have developed an almost shorthand way of communicating because
we have so much history and have so many similar tastes in films. Sometimes,
on a typical shooting day, we may not say more than 40 words to each other
because we know what we want to do and come up with the same ideas almost
simultaneously at times.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:12:51 AM)
When I shoot a film, the director is my closest collaborator. Before I start
a project, I try to get to know my director as fully as a person as I can.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:14:20 AM)
So many people in this business have tremendous reels. I think that working
with a director on a project goes beyond whether you have the technical capability
to achieve what they want and is equally about having a great creative relationship
with the director and other personnel.
Movietone (Mar 27, 2004 11:14:56 AM)
In prepping for a film, do you ever take still photos to help you visualize
the story?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:16:17 AM)
I haven't done that, but I do sometimes take black and white Polaroids while
I'm filming to send to the lab. My prep consists mainly of trying to assemble
a lot of peoples' random thoughts into a cohesive and coherent visual
plan.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:17:08 AM)
I suppose sometimes I might be the only one who actually knows what the film
looks like before we shoot it because on occasion people will come to me
after rushes and say, "Wow, did you know the movie was going to look
like that?"
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:18:08 AM)
I love prep. Can't get enough of it. I believe you make your whole shooting
experience during prep. I always go in with a detailed plan, and I usually
throw away 75 percent when I find something better during production.
Focal Point (Mar 27, 2004 11:18:12 AM)
Jon Voigt was phenomenal in The Fixer. Please tell us about working
with him.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:19:25 AM)
Jon is great. Period. He is such a giving actor, one of the best experiences
a cinematographer can have is working with an actor who understands that
YOU are working to make their performance more compelling.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:20:12 AM)
Jon Voight and Viggo Mortensen are 2 actors that contribute to a production
far more than just their performances.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:21:42 AM)
They contribute a passion for the movie as a whole and for everybody's contributions
to the film. Jon was very open to the very dark lighting scheme I had for The
Fixer, and he was willing to endure any amount of discomfort on location
for a great shot.
dutch (Mar 27, 2004 11:21:56 AM)
Mr. Goi - Any hints on practicing on a geared head? Laser pointer? Sharpie
on show card? Thanks!
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:22:57 AM)
Yes. If you have a 5-year-old child handy, set them loose in a room and follow
them. That will be better training then anything else you could possibly
imagine.
david (Mar 27, 2004 11:23:02 AM)
I found your lighting for Judas to be pretty gutsy, and you used different
treatments for the main characters, sometimes in the same scene. Judas had
extreme contrast in one dramatic scene. Where you able to view dailies while
on location, did that have an effect on your lighting decisions?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:24:51 AM)
I wouldn't call them dailies so much as quarterlies, because turnaround
time was about 4 to 5 days. The dailies we initially received were on VHS,
which were so bad that I was able to argue for digital beta dailies. Even those
were not an accurate reflection of the range of contrast I knew I had on the
film.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:25:40 AM)
I relied primarily on my familiarity with the stock and it's capabilities,
and the fact that I wanted it to have a feature film feel.
Iceberg (Mar 27, 2004 11:25:54 AM)
What are some of the most important criteria for assembling your reel?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:28:10 AM)
George Spiro Dibie's opinion. When I put together the prototype for my last
reel, I showed it to three people whose opinions I trusted, and one of them
was George. He proceeded to blast all of the big explosion shots and helicopter
shots that I thought were impressive. He told me that he had seen movies
I photographed that were very moody and where the lighting was very evocative.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:29:25 AM)
He asked me where those shots were. I re-cut my reel and selected material
that said something to me emotionally. These were usually the smaller moments
in the movies where 2 people are reaching a realization or a character changes
his direction.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:30:06 AM)
All of these emotional moments ended up being my reel. It doesn't show everything
that I'm capable of shooting but it shows what I do best and what I love.
I was also careful about choosing music that complimented the emotional tone
of the footage I was using.
Yoshio (Mar 27, 2004 11:30:48 AM)
In 100 Percent, the movie attempts to break down barriers in the portrayal
of Asian Americans in cinema. Did that movie hit close to home for you? Can
you discuss the role of Asian Americans in the film industry today?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:31:50 AM)
Jusak Yang Bernhard and Paul Bens, the producers of 100 Percent, told
me that I didn't know any Asian people until I met them, and that was essentially
true. They introduced me to an entire community of Asians in the film industry.
I have just been elected to the board of directors for the Coalition of Asian
Pacific Entertainers (CAPE), and plan to be more involved with Asian Americans
in the business.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:34:45 AM)
100 Percent was one of my favorite films to work on. I think
the barrier that it broke was that the plight of the characters was
universal. Most of the things they dealt with during the film had little to do with the fact that they were Asian.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:35:53 AM)
It reminded me of a Bayer aspirin commercial I saw as a teenager. A Japanese
man was pitching Bayer, and he was hired because he effectively sold the
product and not because he was Asian. Those instances don't happen very often.
Usually if you see somebody Asian on television or in movies, they were there
because they were Asian.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:36:35 AM)
100 Percent is not currently available in distribution.
I'm hoping that someday it will be able to be seen because there
are so many gifted actors in the film.
Von Adler (Mar 27, 2004 11:36:42 AM)
You gave a very eloquent description of the changing role of cinematographers,
especially with the evolution of digital postproduction, and that you expect
a gradual awakening. Unfortunately, there are post houses and technology
vendors who are selling a different message to studios and other producers.
They are saying anyone can now control the look, and they imply that it will
cost more if the cinematographer is there. How should we be countering that
propaganda?
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:38:25 AM)
Well, I suppose we could just let them fall flat on their faces and learn that
way, but I think the more producers see how valuable our input is in all
post processes, they will come to realize that our involvement actually saves
them money. It is up to all of us, therefore, to make sure we are well educated
in all the current processes.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:40:30 AM)
I said it before in my LA Times letter and I'll repeat it now for
those of you who haven't seen it. Someone asked me at a seminar if I thought
my job was obsolete because anyone who picks up a digital camera is instantly
a cinematographer. My reply was, "If I give you an electric guitar, will
you instantly become Eric Clapton?"
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:41:53 AM)
All these things, digital cameras, digital post, are merely tools. We are the
people who are best equipped to work with these tools. We understand their
capabilities, and we understand the artistic intention of the film from Day
One.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:43:17 AM)
It behooves any studio or producer to involve the cinematographer fully in
post production. I have worked with producers who have stated to me that
they never want to go through post again without the cinematographer present
because they saw how quickly we could get to the solution of a visual problem.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:44:26 AM)
My advice to all my fellow DP's is to make yourself indispensable by learning
as much as you can about new technology and take advantage of all the educational
seminars that the union provides.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:45:33 AM)
Thank you for logging in and participating in this chat. I imagine I'll see
a lot of you sometime in the future at some seminar or on the set.
Michael Goi (Mar 27, 2004 11:46:14 AM)
As a reminder for members of Local 600, please send in your ballots promptly.
Now shut off the computer and go out and enjoy the sunshine!
bobf (Mar 27, 2004 11:46:35 AM)
Great job Michael, as usual. Thanks for all you do. bob fisher.
