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Conversation with Steven Poster, ASC
POSTER: I was born in Chicago on the north side. When I was 12 years old we moved to suburbs. I got interested in photography when I was 10 years old. Nobody in my family was a photographer other than home movies and amateur still photography. There was one kid who lived on the block, whose dad had a dark room. I got to experience what a dark room was like a few times before I was 10. I vividly remember that. This guy was an engineer by day, and he built his own dark room, including his own enlarger out of plywood with lenses that he probably bought from Edmond Scientific. I honestly don't know if that's what turned me into a photo enthusiast. This same guy also had a wood shop and he had a wonderful train set that he and his son worked on a lot, and I didn't become interested in those hobbies. But the dark room really made an impression. ICG: When did that translate into a hobby? POSTER: When I was 10 years old I was given a little Brownie camera, and it was something I really took to. By the time I was 12, I decided that photography was going to be my life. I didn't know what that meant, but I was sure that's what I'd do. When I was 13, I took some money that I had gotten for my Bar Mitzvah gift, and bought a serious still camera. It was a used Twin Lens Reflex Roliflex. ICG: So, there was no thought about movies at that point? POSTER: My father owned a 16 mm Kodak camera that we used to make home movies. There was also an uncle who came to family parties with old Ampro 16mm projector and hours of cartoons. That was a wonderful experience. I can still remember the smell of the machine oil in that projector. It's one of those sensory memories that you keep with you forever. ICG: But you weren't thinking about a career making films? POSTER: At age 12 or 13 that wasn't something I thought about, but I knew I was going to be a photographer, and it would be in my life forever. When I was in my teens, I was known as the still photographer in school and in the community center. My high school principal embarrassingly called me 'Flash'. I got a lucky break when I was 14. A man built a house next door to ours. The day I met him he drove up in an old Jaguar, got out of the car and started looking over his property. I was watching him from inside my house. I noticed that he had something around his neck, and recognized that it was a light meter. My heart started pounding. I ran out of the house, introduced myself, and asked 'What kind of light meter is that?' He said "We'll have lot's of time to talk about those things." He seemed so cool. He told me he was a newsreel cameraman for CBS. His name was Morrie Bleckman. Some of you may recognize that name. His Brother, Izzie, shot all of the stories for Charles Kuralt: On the Road for more than 20 years. When I heard that, I had this epiphany that you could make your life in movie photography. I decided on the spot there that was what I was going to do. I was going to become a motion picture cameraman. I didn't even know what that meant at the time, but I knew that's what I was going to do. ICG: How did your neighbor influence you after that? Poster: It was an on-going influence. He's still giving me advice. I was lucky enough to have him become my mentor. He was a tough kind of guy. He insisted that I study still photography before I thought about doing anything in movies. He also owned the only 16mm newsreel lab in town. I got to hang out down there. ICG: Did you meet other cinematographers? POSTER: I met other news shooters, but you know it was a funny community. They were a pretty hard lot, and interesting. Morrie was a pretty tough guy, but a great friend and a great teacher. I remember them waiting around the lab for their film or sitting having coffee and listening to them talk. It was pretty exciting. ICG: But you were taking still pictures at this time? POSTER: I graduated high school as an avid still photographer with the intention of studying still photography and eventually getting into movies. At that time there weren't a lot of schools with majors in cinematography. ICG: So, how did you get information? POSTER: I had been reading American Cinematographer pretty regularly at that point, and I had an old copy of the American Cinematographer manual. I was also learning the basics of lighting and exposures with still photography. I was also interested in theater and art. ICG: What did you do after high school? POSTER: I intended on becoming a cinematographer, but I was also a dedicated still photographer and really wanted to study that. I didn't have a lot of choices. I wasn't a great student in high school. I had so many other interests. There weren't a lot of places that taught cinematography specifically at that point. Morrie's advice was to study still photography and get a solid foundation in that before moving into films. I ended up at Southern Illinois University in a special program that involved teaching kids who were bright but did badly in high school how to learn. I was very fortunate to be thrust into a program that was designed and taught by Buckminster Fuller and a group of other designers. It was quite an exciting year. My second year at Southern Illinois I got into the photography and television programs. During the summer, I spent some time running the film chain in the TV department. The film chain was the device used to air films on television. We ran a lot of the old foreign films. ICG: Like what? What do you remember? POSTER: I remember a number of French classics. It was all the movies that a company, Janus Films, imported. They were just great. We also had all the Bergman films that were out at that time. It was the beginning of the European influence in movie-making. We also ran a lot of old American movies. So, I got paid to watch a lot of great old movies. It was a tremendous job. ICG: I think you're the fifth or sixth person interviewed in this series, and almost all of them have mentioned how the new wave films from the 1950s and'60s influenced their careers. What was it that resonated with you? POSTER: It was a new way of telling stories and creating images that the audience would respond to on an emotional level. It wasn't just recording a story. It was inventing images that helped the audience understand what the director wanted them to feel. ICG: So, it was like a language? POSTER: Yes. It was a visual language, which was different than the photoplay style of movie making. The television station also had a full production capability, but only in black and white. We were one of the first schools ever to have two-inch quad tape machines, but we couldn't edit the tapes yet. So whatever programming we produced was preformed live but recorded on tape. I started working on a short insert show with a friend. We'd go around the Southern Illinois area, and I would shoot slides and 16mm film. We recorded audio and produced a little show called Adventures Through Southern Illinois. We went to all of the local oddities and geological sites. They were five minute inserts. ICG: Did you finish school at Southern Illinois? POSTER: No. Around 1963,-64, I got involved in the Student Peace Union and the civil rights movement, and those weren't popular positions in Southern Illinois. Things got very unfriendly, and I decided it was time to leave. I saw an ad in a photo magazine for the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena. It sounded great to me. I had no idea what it was or where it was, but I knew it was closer to Hollywood than Southern Illinois. I called the school, and asked what the requirements were for enrollment. They needed a portfolio of 10 pictures, verification of my grades and an application. Within 10 days I was accepted at Art Center. It was one of the luckiest moves I've ever made. ICG: Why? POSTER: There are two things I'll never forget. The night I got off the airplane for the first time in LA, I stayed at a cousin's house. It was Fall and orange blossoms and jasmine were in bloom. The place smelled like heaven. It was like perfume, and it was just warm and beautiful. I said, I've come to the Promised Land. Then, I started school, and the first lecture I had on photography was by a man named Charlie Potts, who was teaching lighting. His first lecture was like a religious revelation. He didn't teach us how to light anything. He taught us how to see light. That made all the difference in the world, because for the first time I wasn't trying to figure out where I should put a light. I began to understand what it was I was looking at. It was a wonderful experience. It provided the foundation for everything I do in lighting, every day of my life. I can't walk around like an ordinary person. I look out that window, and I see the sunlight falling on that tree, and I relate to how it affects the mood. I look at your face, and I see the light and where it's coming from, and what the ambient light from the window is doing to you. That's all because of Charlie Potts. He was brilliant. ICG: Did you meet other people who influenced you? POSTER: Yes, my time there had a profound effect on my thinking. It's still a great school for photographers and filmmakers. I was only there for two years. I learned how to be a professional, and how to work in the real world. But, at the end of two years, I felt that I was beginning to repeat my work, and I had a personal reason for wanting to move back to Chicago. I enrolled at the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology, and that's where I earned my degree. There were three different influences, and each of the schools had an effect on my career. Buckminster Fuller's concepts about design taught me how to approach problem solving. Art Center taught me how to be a professional and to think about designing shapes, use colors, lines and materials. IIT was the American version of the Bauhaus movement, which was developed in Germany during the 1920s and '30s. I think I absorbed that free-style thinking about art almost by osmosis. It was the sum of all of these different influences which prepared me for my career. ICG: How did you begin your career after college? POSTER: During my senior year, I went out for a couple of jobs working as camera assistant on various and sundry things. I worked also as a still assistant. I did some studio managing for a still photographer. All of this while, I was taking a full load of courses. One day I got a call from a guy who worked in a rental house in Chicago. His name was Ron Pitts. He knew I was interested in the movie business because I had been hanging out at his place looking at equipment. He called me at midnight and said, 'I've got a job if you're interested. Be at Midwest Studios tomorrow at 6 a.m.' I asked what it was, and he said I'd be assisting three cameramen who were shooting a half hour show. Then, he said the words that struck terror into my heart. He asked, 'Have you ever loaded an Eclair?' I said, 'What's an Eclair?' He told me over the phone how to load an Eclair 16mm magazine. Armed with nothing more than enthusiasm and that conversation, I went there at 6 a.m., and these three cameramen handed me three magazines each, and pointed at the dark room. I went in there and I started sweating. I ripped a piece of film off a roll in the dark - I knew enough to do that -- and practiced loading it. After a while I felt ready. I got the first one loaded, and realized that I had the emulsion on the wrong side, so I had to start over. It was pretty easy after that, but by then people were banging on the door, asking what's going on? After about an hour and a half, I came out of the darkroom, and they were building the set. I had some stagecraft knowledge, so I jumped in and helped. We painted and lit the set. By then, it 7 p.m. They brought in an audience of 200 people and filmed a half hour country music show. It was a pilot for a TV series, George Jones and the Jones Boys. We finished shooting at midnight. We had been given two meals from McDonald's during the day. We broke down the set, cleaned it up, put everything away, and walked out at 6 a.m. I had worked 24 straight hours. I was very pleased with myself. The producer said, 'Kid, you were so great, and you worked so hard, I'm going to give you twice as much as we originally planned.' He gave me a check for $50 (I thought). That was my first paying job in the motion picture business. The problem was that the check bounced, and I never collected a penny. ICG: I guess that was another part of your education. POSTER: I've only had one check bounce since then. Soon afterwards, I went to work at a small commercial production company in Chicago. It was a boutique shop run by a documentary filmmaker, a still photographer, and a man who previously had been in the aeronautical engineering business. They called it The Film Group. I showed them a little film that I had done a year earlier in college to fulfill an assignment. They said, 'Well, it looks like you know something about lighting.' I said I had studied lighting, and had some experience. Much to my surprise, they decided to hire me as a cameraman. ICG: What did you actually do? ICG: I shot my first commercial a week later. It was scheduled to shoot on a Monday, and we got the 35mm equipment on Friday. It was a Mark II Mitchell on a gear head with a blimp. I had never seen a 35mm camera before, and I had never touched a gear head. I spent all Friday night laying out 35 cases of equipment on the floor. I spent all day Saturday trying to put the camera together, and trying to get all these little gears, wheels, knobs, dials and boxes to make sense. I got the camera built, and put in the blimp by Saturday night. I had been sitting on floor of this studio the whole time. I realized the camera was too big for me to pick up and put on the mount myself. I went outside and found a stranger and asked him to help me. He came inside and helped me lift the camera up to the gear head. I spent Sunday practicing with the wheels, and on Monday I shot the commercial. It was for Quaker Shredded Wheat. ICG: Did you go on then and shoot more commercials? POSTER: Yes, I shot more commercials for The Film Group. It was a tremendous experience that also had a big impact on my career. ICG: What did you learn from that experience? POSTER: Their concept was shooting in cinema verite style, based on documentary filmmaking that was an emerging art form at that time. The main practitioners were Albert and David Maysles, Ricky Leacock and Pennybaker. In Chicago, I was working with Mike Shea, a former photo journalist who became a cinema verite shooter. It was a pretty impressive group. There was an editor there named Gordon Quinn, who had worked on some major verite documentaries. I learned a lot from him and from Mike Shea. At the same time, I was finishing my last year in college and was about to graduate, My senior thesis was based on shooting film in cinema verite style. I shot a 400-foot film in one take without turning off the camera. It was 11 minutes. I designed it in such a way that I could improvise along with an improvisational piano player from Second City. I used a very wide lens, a 5.7mm Kinoptic. This could have been one of the first music videos. It was very well received. ICG: How did you get into narrative filmmaking? POSTER: I worked for The Film Group for about six months, and they weren't getting a tremendous amount of business at the time. One of the guys sent me to see Herschel Gordon Lewis, who was about to start shooting a movie in Chicago. He was the inventor of the gore movies. He was a very low budget filmmaker who did such great movies as Blood Feast and Monster A Go Go. He did these entire 35mm color movies for no more than $10,000 or $20,000. He borrowed everything and paid us nothing. We would make a movie in three weeks. In fact, that first summer I made three features with him. It was great fun. We had an old Mitchell camera and a blimp that weighed about 45 tons. In fact, it was so heavy that it broke the wooden tripod we had at one point. The doors on it were so big, and there was so much space in that blimp that you could stick your entire head in it. We had one steamer trunk full of cable, mostly zip cord and extension cords. We had another steamer trunk filled with four ColorTran lights. That's how we shot everything. Herschel said, if you can't light something with four lights, it wasn't worth shooting. We made feature films. They weren't pornos. They were horror or gore films. It was so low end that one of us was assigned every morning to go the butcher shop and get liver and entrails that we used as gore props. ICG: Do you find it a little disconcerting to read articles in the trades today saying that all the things you did 20 years ago are becoming possible today because of the invention of digital - shooting low budget with minimalist lighting? POSTER: We did it then, and I'll tell you what, there are filmmakers doing it now who are shooting feature films in cinema verite style with almost no equipment or budget. It has nothing to do with the technology. It's a way of thinking. Necessity is the Mother of Invention. ICG: At that time, was it your ambition to become a Hollywood cinematographer? POSTER: That was always my ambition. Sometimes I've wondered whether I should have stayed in Hollywood after Art Center instead of moving back to Chicago. Maybe I would have gotten in the mainstream faster. But, chances are that my time in Chicago gave me more opportunities to shoot. I stayed in Chicago for almost 10 years. I got into shooting industrial films, documentaries, commercials, educational and medical films. ICG: Medical films? That's part of your history I didn't know.
ICG: Were you in the camera Guild in Chicago in those days? POSTER: No. I was working non-union. Actually, there was a great rivalry between Guild and non-union cameramen with a tremendous amount of hostility. Eventually I was shooting commercials and making top dollar. I got to work with people like Michael Mann, who started his career doing commercials. He had a company in Chicago, and I shot a number of commercials for his company and for him. I was gaining quite a bit of experience and a getting a lot of press. One day I got a call from the business agent for the Chicago Local. He said they were willing to let me in as apprentice. Of course, I refused because I was making top dollar as a director of photography. He called again a week later, and offered to let me into the Local as an assistant. I refused again. A week later, they called again, and offered to let me in as a director of photography. I got them to agree to let my camera assistant and sound man in, too. I'll never forget my first union meeting in Chicago. Morrie, my mentor, told me to go to every meeting the first year and to keep my mouth shut. At that first meeting there was a guy who was about 150 years old. He was the secretary/treasurer. Morrie introduced us. I had long hair, a flowered shirt and bell bottoms. He said, 'You look like a fairy to me.' He turned around and walked away. That was my introduction to the Guild. But, I took Morrie's advice and listened. Two years later, I was an officer. ICG: Did being in the Chicago Local affect the types of jobs you got? POSTER: I began getting work on various feature films shooting in the territory. We worked as operators and second camera operators, and did additional photography. It was a way for me to learn a little bit about what it was like to work on Hollywood movies. It was a step closer to Hollywood. I did that for about three years. Then, one summer it was a little slow. A group of friends decided we were going to make our own movie, a little short. It was something to do. We built a set. We had horses riding in the streets of Chicago, which was not an easy thing to do. We shot with a full crew in 35mm format, and took it to the Atlanta Film Festival, where it won the prize for best short. I was the producer and cinematographer. I started thinking, we could make feature films in Chicago. We didn't need Hollywood. I had a partner who was a writer. He gave me a script, and we were working on raising funds. Being young and arrogant, I announced that I wasn't going to shoot any more commercials or industrial films, just features. ICG: What happened? POSTER: We came close to funding our first project. We had it cast. We spoke to Bob Gottschalk (Panavision founder) about using one of the first Panaflex cameras. Then, the stock market fell apart and interest rates went way up. Everybody pulled their money out. Within three days, the project fell apart. I was completely devastated. Sitting on a bench in Lincoln Park one afternoon with a friend talking about our rotten luck, a severely disabled man hobbled by. He stopped, and said, 'Excuse me, I couldn't help but overhear your conversation. Do you mind if I sit down and talk to you?' We spent about 45 minutes talking. He was a cheerful and wonderful human being. We never asked his name or saw him again. My friend and I got on a plane the next day and flew to California. His optimism changed my life. It was that simple. I had a friend in Los Angeles who gave me a break when he hired me to shoot his commercials. My life in Hollywood began. ICG: Were you able to transfer into the Hollywood Local? POSTER: Of course not. At the time I was a vice president in the Chicago Local and thought I had some clout. So I called the Los Angeles business agent and said, I'd like to talk about transferring to the Guild in Los Angeles. He told me I'd never work in this town if he had anything to do with it. He said it would take me 15 years, and he slammed the phone down. After I recovered from the shock, I found a lawyer, who happened to play golf with the business agent. They negotiated a deal for me to become a member. I was unaware that at the same time I was doing that there was a struggle going on between the Union and a group of non-union Cameramen who were suing to get in. I think the business agent wanted to use me as an example to show how easy it was to join. Fortunately it didn't work. But I was put into a category called Group Three, which meant I couldn't work in the studios until I became Group One. So, I continued shooting commercials, both in L.A. and in Chicago. I worked on various projects there, and then I got lucky. ICG: What happened? POSTER: When I still lived in Chicago I shot commercials for FilmFair. They had offices in Los Angeles and Chicago. Vilmos Zsigmond (ASC) was shooting a spot for them in Duluth, Minnesota, and I worked on his crew. It was in the middle of winter, and we were shooting on a frozen runway right off a lake. We were shooting cars trying to brake and stop on the ice. I think it was for Sears. This was before Eddie Bauer taught us how to dress warmly. It was so cold we could either complain about it or laugh a lot. Vilmos and I decided to laugh. Vilmos was very kind to me. About a year or two later, he was preparing to shoot Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I tried and tried to get a meeting with him, because they were going to do some shooting in the Chicago area. Finally, somebody arranged a meeting just before they were about to start shooting. I thought my chances had gone, because I heard he had hired somebody else. He said, "Let's talk anyhow." After our meeting, he said, "You're very lucky, I'm going to hire you." That was how I ended up being the Chicago standby cameraman on Close Encounters. ICG: What shots did you work on? POSTER: Actually, nothing for the first three weeks. They weren't planning on a having a second unit or having two cameras. One day, they were shooting a party scene outside, and someone told me that Steven (Spielberg) wanted some shots while they were doing principal photography. About four days later on a Sunday, I got a call from Steven's assistant, Rick Fields, who said Steven wanted to see me at his house in a half hour. I was sure I was getting fired. But instead he told me that there were five second unit shots that he wanted me to do. He gave me all of the details. He told me to tell Julia Philips the producer. I went in the next morning, all prepared, knowing exactly what I needed. I walked into Julia Philips office, and told her what I needed, including the crew, vehicles and equipment. In Chicago that's the way you did it. You did everything yourself. I didn't realize there were assistant directors or production managers, and people to help you figure out what to do. Apparently, no second unit had been planned on this movie, and there was no budget for it. She spent the next 45 minutes yelling at me and telling me how presumptuous I was. Finally, she sent me to the production manager, and he started yelling at me. Finally, he said, okay we'll do it in two days. I ended up shooting a bunch of second unit pieces throughout the rest of the show. It was an amazing experience. ICG: What did you learn? POSTER: I learned so much, it was like getting a master's degree. I had the opportunity to learn from one of the great old Hollywood gaffers named Earl Gilbert. He was a legend. Earl always wore a white shirt, and he never got a speck of dirt on it. He commanded respect. He had just rigged the largest set ever built indoors for a motion picture. One day, he said, "Kid, if you're going to grow up to be a director of photography, get up there and run that Arc for three days and learn what you're doing." I learned what an arc is, how to maintain it and what it was capable of lighting. I got to experience every part of the crew, grip, electric, physical effects and visual effects. The visual effects supervisor was Douglas Trumbull. I think it was the third movie where Doug used his motion control camera system. It included a huge raft of computers and a very large encoded gear head that was the heart of this revolutionary piece of equipment. It was just astonishing to be able to work on that level. I was like a kid in a candy store ICG: Did that open other doors? POSTER: It allowed me to start moving in the direction of doing movies. Pretty soon after that, I able to work in the studios. My first project was a TV series for Universal called Class of '65. I took over toward the end of the show. After a couple of days, the crew warmed up to me and really helped me learn about working in the studio system. Afterwards, I shot a couple of TV movies, and several mini series. But I was really itching to get into features. I was also continuing to work in Chicago. I got to be an operator on a Robert Altman movie, The Wedding. The cinematographer was Chuck Rosher, Jr.(ASC), He was very gracious. He taught me a lot. My first feature as a director of photography was Blood Beach in 1981. ICG: What was it like? POSTER: It was a hell of an experience. I got terrific reviews. One of the trades said, my work looked like a European cinematographer. That was meant to be a compliment in those days. Unfortunately the movie didn't get such hot reviews. Almost immediately afterwards, I shot Dead and Buried with James Farentino and Jack Albertson. The director was a guy I went to college with. I thought my career was made, two features back to back. But, I didn't get another film for two years. That was another lesson. I got great reviews, but the box office was lousy, and sometimes, that's how you're judged. During the next several years, I shot a lot of commercials, a bunch of movies of the week and some pilots. ICG: Do any of those early MOWS stand out in your memory? POSTER: I did some nice work with a wonderful director, Jeremy Kagan on a film called Courage. We met right after Close Encounters, and he said, next time I get a film, you're going to shoot it. How many times do you hear that in your career? About a year later, he called about a three hour TV movie with Sophia Loren. She played the role of an immigrant who became a double agent for the police in a drug ring to avenge the death of her son. It was an unforgettable experience. When I first got to the location, Jeremy said, 'Sophia wants to meet you, alone.' Of course I was a big fan and was quite nervous. I went to her suite in the hotel. Her assistant made me a cup of tea and we sat down and talked. She said, 'I just want to know one thing. Are you the kind of cameraman who lights the room or the actor?' I knew just what she was talking about and said "Miss Loren, I'm here just for you." We had the best time working together. She knew exactly how to find her best light. It was the first time I worked with Jeremy. On the second day of shooting, he staged a scene for the camera that was so brilliant I was overwhelmed. I realized that he was the best director I had worked with up to that point. We completed that TV movie on such a creative high. It was an amazing experience. ICG: What is that yin and yang that works with some directors and cinematographers? Can it be explained?
ICG: That's an interesting concept, by the way, the camera as an actor. Do you get to work with a lot of directors who think that way? POSTER: Yes and no. I had a great time with Ridley Scott. I met him on Bladerunner, where I was brought in to do some additional photography. I was there for a few weeks. Then he hired me to shoot several commercials and tests for his movie Legend. After that Ridley asked me to shoot Someone To Watch Over Me. It was a wonderful, intensely creative experience. He was very supportive and amazingly collaborative. ICG: That was a great film. I know it got an ASC nomination for Outstanding Achievement. What made it special? POSTER: Ridley's intensity, and his ability to see what he wanted in a frame at any given moment. Ridley has an ability to change every thing in every shot and make it flow and have continuity. It drives script supervisors crazy, but it works. He has that kind of an eye and that kind of a mind that allows him to create and build every shot separately. ICG: You were one of the first cinematographers to cross the boundaries between features and commercials and television. POSTER: It wasn't something I planned. It was just the way I made a living. But, I enjoy being able to keep mixing things up. I still do. I just finished shooting a TV pilot for Aaron Spelling. Before that I was the first director of photography to shoot a movie in France for a French director, Patrice Leconte. It is called Une Chance Sur Deux, and it stars Jean Paul Belmondo and Alain Delain and a young actress named Vanessa Paradis. ICG: How did you get to shoot that film? POSTER: Patrice and I had been making commercials together for more than 10 years. ICG: What kind of hurdles did you have to go over in order to be an American shooting a French language movie? POSTER: The biggest hurdle was the government of France, which didn't want an American shooting a French film. Basically, they said this was a French art, and there was no reason why I should be allowed to come over there. I had been kept out twice before on two other films. When our colleagues in the French Societe of Cinematography (AFC) heard about this, they, in fact, went to the government on my behalf. They pointed out that many of them shoot movies in the United States, and there were good reasons why Patrice wanted to work with me. ICG: Did you learn anything from that experience? What was it like working in France with a French director? POSTER: It reinforced something I've always known. This is a universal art form. We all speak one language. There were some different customs regarding who does what jobs on the crew, but the principals are all the same. ICG: Didn't you shoot an HD test some years ago? POSTER: I've always been curious and open-minded about the possibilities of different types of media. Back in the 1970s, I shot a test directed by Alan Levi for Universal Studios. A company called Image Transform was probably the first to convert videotape to film. The idea then - as now -was that you could shoot tape because it was cheaper, and then make a print that could be projected. It was a brilliant system, but it still looked like tape. Around 1990-91 NHK asked me to shoot a test, or a demonstration, for them with a new HD 1080I camera. It was a prototype that Sony was developing with Panavision. I guess history repeats itself. At first, I wasn't going to do it, because I was shooting a movie with Mel Brooks called Life Stinks, but they kept coming back, so I got intrigued. NHK, you know, is the state TV network, in Japan. It is partially owned by the government, and partially owned by the consumer electronic industry. They also do collective R&D. They did the original HD research during the 1970s, for the system Sony eventually brought to the U.S. around 1982. I finally asked to see the script. They wanted to know why I need a script. They just wanted a test that demonstrated how this camera could be used to make movies. I asked about the director. Again, they said they didn't think they needed one. They just wanted me to go out for a couple of days and shoot scenery with the camera. I told them that wasn't a real test. In the motion picture business you have to tell a story. I gave them the names of a couple of directors, and after a while they hired someone, and came back to me with a 15 minute script. It was pretty damned good for what it was. ICG: You said Panavision worked with Sony on this prototype? POSTER: That's right. It was Sony, Panavision and NHK. It was an analog tube camera that had its flaws, but it had a nice warmth to it. It was an interesting look. We shot a 15-minute, mini-drama that we called Pacific Coast Highway. There was a story about a female journalist who was covering a bicycle race on the California shore. We shot from sunup to sunset, and it covered a full spectrum of lighting situations. I used silks and ProMist filters to control reflections and to create more natural-looking textures for the sky, water and skin tones, and Ultracon filters to try to compensate for limitations in the video tonal range compared to film. Technically, the sensitivity of the CRT sensor was about equivalent to a 250-speed film, but optical viewing system drained about half of the light, so the effective exposure index was around 125. My personal conclusion was that it was very impressive video, and it would be a good replacement for PAL and NTSC video programs, but getting a film-look was pretty elusive for the purposes of narrative story-telling. I said, these are two distinctly different mediums (film and video). It's time to recognize that and move forward with both of them. ICG: As a matter of fact, before we began this conversation, I found an article I wrote with you in 1991, and you were absolutely prescient. You said that HD had to evolve from analog to digital before it could move forward, and that real progress would be made in the convergence of film and digital technologies in postproduction. That was several years before the FCC mandated that the future of television in the U.S. would be digital. POSTER: You didn't have to be prescient. The MIT Media Lab was already saying that. ASC convened a focus group to look into this issue in 1993. It included a number of our members, and also some very good people from the studios and other parts of the industry. I delivered a report to a seminar hosted by The Artists Rights Foundation that year. It called for a convergence of standards for HDTV sets and computers, so they could be used interchangeably, progressive scanning, and not only the elimination of panning and scanning but that all movies be delivered in their original format. With a digital delivery system, there is no technical reason why every movie couldn't be seen in as they were shot. There was also no technical reason to lock the public into 16:9 screens. The ASC was attacked by the broadcasters and the consumer electronics industry. They were against everything we suggested. They said convergence of standards for the computer and TV and progressive scanning were out of the ICG. It would be too costly and it wasn't technically feasible. ICG: What happened? POSTER: The odds were very uneven, of course. They were giant companies with huge vested interests and powerful lobbyists in Washington. We (ASC members) wrote letters to directors we had worked with, and pretty soon the DGA. Artists Rights Foundation and many other individual filmmakers joined us. Steven Spielberg was a great help. Eventually, the FCC took kind of a neutral position. They refused to ban panning and scanning, but one of the commissioners wrote a letter suggesting that broadcasters do it voluntarily. They also specified 18 different standards for digital Tv transmission, and left it up to the market place. That led to a lot of confusion. People are trying to compose TV shows for two aspect ratios, and that's an impossible compromise. ICG: A lot of what ASC proposed is now happening. POSTER: The electronics companies who insisted that progressive scanning was an impossibility are acting like they invented the idea. Now, the say it's the future, and the convergence of computers and TV sets is now a given. ICG: So, the moral is that history repeats itself. POSTER: History always repeats itself. ICG: What are the challenges now for young people starting their careers? What do they have to look forward to? POSTER: It's like learning to do anything. If you want to play basketball as a professional, you have to master the basic skills, like learning how to dribble, pass and shoot. It's the same with filmmaking and cinematography, especially. You have to learn the basics, whether you are going to shoot with a 35mm, 16mm or Super 8 film camera, or any video camera, the HD24P camcorder, the Handicam or Prosumers. It doesn't matter. You still have to learn the basics. You have to learn how to see light. You have to understand exposure, even if you're not going to be using a light meter if you shoot tape. You have to understand composition , flow and continuity. Most of all, you have to know how to tell stories with images. Those are some of the fundamental basics. ICG: There are people who say you don't have to light with HD? POSTER: Those people don't understand what we mean when we talk about lighting, or why we light. We aren't just talking about exposure. Film speed is relative. Motion Picture film is available with film speeds ranging from 50 in daylight to 800 in tungsten 3200K light for optimum exposure, but sometimes we bend those rules and under- and overexpose film to manipulate looks. We can do that in a lot of ways -- in the way we light, with the use of filters and diffusion or colors; by under- and over exposing the film, with proprietary lab processes, in the telecine suite or in digital post - there are endless possibilities. It's the same with video. The consensus seems to be that the Panavised Sony HD camcorder is equivalent to about a 160-speed film. But you can manipulate that in various ways. However, none of that has anything to do with why we light. We light because it is an essential part of our art. It's how we create moods and a sense of time and place. Many times, we'll use negative light. That means we are taking light away, and we are creating shadows and contrast. There are people claiming that video is easier, so you can work with a smaller crew and avoid lighting. You can do those things with film or video, but you will usually get much less artful results. ICG: There are people who say you have to make compromises for economic reasons. How do you respond to that? POSTER: We have always had to make compromises for economics reasons. That isn't the issue. The issue is that whether we are shooting a commercial, documentary or narrative film, we are using flowing visual images to tell a story. You have to understand that every element of every frame is informing the audience. If you don't control the lighting, I'm not saying you have to light everything, or put light on everything -- but you have to control the lighting. It might be as simple as turning off an overhead light, drawing a curtain, so that you get nice side light, or bringing a white card in. I'm not saying you have to use lights to do this, but you have to understand and be able to see light to tell stories with moving images. ICG: What are some of the other main challenges? POSTER: There is a tremendous amount of hysteria in the industry today. Younger people are worried about their futures. There are people who have felt disenfranchised who now see opportunities to revolutionize the business with Handicams. The truth is that you can make a movie with very little equipment, in very little time and very little effort, and maybe come up with something decent. But, unless you have a point of view, a story to tell, and a knowledge of how to tell that story, you're just deluding yourself. Owning a Handicam doesn't make you a director of photography. ICG: Do you think the role of the cinematographer is being threatened by, for example, the Mike Figgis hype-all, including the stories on CNN, the New York Times, and everywhere else, where they show pictures of him with a digital camera on his shoulder. The message is that anyone can put a camera on their shoulder and become an instant cinematographer. That's the spin being given to the media, and they are swallowing that bait. POSTER: I've learned that you need patience. You look at Mike Figgis's movie, and it tells a certain entertaining story. I'm sure there's a place for this technique. In fact it would always take a very accomplished director to tell a complex story like this. I don't believe that every studio or producer is going to say that's how I want to shoot all of my films in the future. I'll be surprised if Mike Figgis will do it again. In fact it did very poorly at the box office. ICG: You heard the now infamous comment on a Sundance panel last year, about how digital photography is freeing directors from the tyranny of cinematographers and caterers? POSTER: So they'll have bad pictures and hungry crews. Those are cute but empty words. The reality is that no matter how you shoot, you still need to master the craft in order to tell artful stories. It's that simple. I think what is going to happen is that a lot of people will try doing different things, and they'll tell us, this is the only way to do it. Unless you do it that way, you're stupid. The truth is that people who are succeeding in this industry aren't stupid or even behind the times. They know from experience that audiences basically respond to artful story telling. We've been through all of this before. It's much easier manipulating the press than is to manipulate filmmakers. ICG: Looking back, is it all that different than when you were trying to gain a foothold in the industry working with minimalist tools in Chicago? POSTER; In some respects it's completely different, and in others, it's not. We had a great deal of respect for the process of creating images as a means for telling stories. There are people today who are trying to diminish respect for that process -- it's the "your-little-sister-can-take-the-pictures" mentality. I think that's dangerous in a way, but I really believe it will be a short-lived phenomenon. People are going to realize that, in fact, it takes creativity and craftsmanship to tell those artful stories. That doesn't mean that experiments like Dogma 95, or other low budget efforts, are going to go away. They are what they are. Some people will find those films entertaining. There is a lot of hype about streaming media on the Internet, but it is all speculation at this point. Do I think that will replace artful filmmaking? No. But it will be another way to get stories in front of an audience. ICG: Why do you sound so confident? POSTER: Because I respect the ultimate taste of audiences and their appetite for being entertained by stories which allow them to temporarily suspend reality. By the way, I think there are a lot of still unanswered ICGs about whether we see and perceive video film media differently, but that's another conversation. ICG: You didn't come up through the crew system. You came up pretty much shooting. Do you think it matters? What about today? POSTER: I think any path you choose to follow as an individual is great. I got terrific experience shooting, but I also learned a lot when I was working on movies in the midwest teritory. I was getting a chance to watch how Vilmos Zsigmond and other great cinematographers worked with directors and crews. There is an axiom for free-lancers which sounds something like, "You always think that every decision you made about your career is wrong." That's not true. The truth is that anything you can do to gain experience is the right decision, You just have to keep learning and moving forward as boldly as you can. That's the main thing. Don't be afraid to experiment. Owen Roizman told me on Return of the Man Called Horse, "Be Bold." ICG: Everybody is using the word revolution when they talk about digital, whether its a movie shot with a Handicam or an HD camcorder. What do you think?
ICG: In fact, Nancy Schreiber (ASC) is shooting Blair Witch Project II, and the medium is 35mm film. I'll make this the last ICG. You are vice president of ASC and ICG. What role do you see the Guild having in the future? POSTER: I think the Guild has a tremendously important role to play in defining the workplace. We recently came through very heavy negotiations with the studios. Their negotiators claimed they were told that the new digital camera technology is so easy that anyone can now shoot movies. They wanted to translate that into smaller crews, lower rates and fewer benefits. It was a very tough argument, but we were able to make the point that some things about the new digital cameras may be more convenient, but that doesn't make the job easier. Our president, George (Spiro) Dibie (ASC), has won six Emmys for shooting video shows, and he argued that it isn't easier-and, in fact, in some ways, it requires more lighting control to make up for differences in contrast. It is a new tool, which we need to use when appropriate. The bottom line is that the issue was tabled for now. There are no neutrals. This is everyone's war. We need to let the vendors know that we aren't happy about their propaganda when they say it's easier, less expensive, faster and looks just as good. If they just told the truth instead of trying to sell equipment we'd all be further along and better off. ICG: Any last words of advice? POSTER: Don't let them grind you down. Believe in yourself, believe in your art and never stop learning. You have to persevere. #
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