Interview with Bill Roe

QUESTION: Tell us what you have been working on with The X-Files

ROE: For the first two shows this season, we were in Borrego Springs for ten days, shooting in 128-degree heat. It was the continuation of the season finale, in which Mulder gets….We wanted to have this vast desert feeling, with cliffs and rocks and that's why we went there. It was quite a challenge with the crew. It was pretty amazing; at night it went to about 100. We shot it both day and night. We had a couple BB lights doing the whole thing. We had these 360s with steadicams shooting these humongous cliffs that were 50-60 feet high. Some of it looked like a moon crater; it was really amazing, valleys and canyons, beautiful.

QUESTION: Do you think that comes through on a TV screen to the audience?

ROE: On our show it does.

QUESTION: Talk about why a little bit.

ROE: Well, I think a lot of it is because we're never afraid to be wide enough. Most TV shows when you come to it, they never do anything wider than a 35. On our show, we use 10 mms at times and we use 14s. I think the audience comes to expect to see where we are and what we're doing.

QUESTION: How much time do you typically have to prepare each week? When do you see the script for next week’s show?

ROE: I get pieces of it probably about four days before and eventually we start getting full ones.

QUESTION: So when you're getting those pieces, are you seeing the show in your mind?

ROE: Sometimes. Sometimes we are. We're looking at things. We start the first couple of days on stage, so that we have a time to digest the script. Everybody gets a chance to figure out what's happening, because usually there is always something humongous in the show. Whether it's a big desert shot or inside of a warehouse, there's always something large that we spend a day or two on. Being on the stage gives us a chance to work things out. We shoot some tests sometimes and look at things. Maybe we should do this or maybe we should do that? Pulsing situations, do we want to pulse it fast or slow? Sometimes we try to do some things with makeup, testing, and make sure it's okay. Being on the stage in the first two days, it's almost like the prep time or us.           

QUESTION: Why is darkness important on a show like this.

ROE: Well, I mean, the whole theory is that it’s better not to see anything and have a question mark there than it is to see it. So in other words, if you can't see it it's probably scarier.

QUESTION: You're imaging it then?

ROE: Exactly. And you see a piece of something going by, it's much scarier than actually having a close-up and looking at the guy’s face. That's the whole theory, if it's darker, sketchier and scarier the imagination will take over more than actually showing the audience what it is.

We light through windows a lot too, so more of a natural look than anything. We come into a set, especially a day set, and I'd never turn any practicals on anywhere. We try to light everything through windows and creative things like that. Walking through a hot window—I love it. The more extreme the better. We try to make it as real as possible, just like the characters. I love hot kicks in the

QUESTION: So, you have got these things that you do every week and then a new director comes on, how do you deal with that, do they not mess with the look or is it something you talk through?

ROE: Well, every director is different. Everybody has their own ideas about how they want to do things and we try to steer them and tell them that, ‘God it would really be great over this side, the light coming from here…’ We try to have whatever would make it look more like X Files and they are more than willing to help. They know the look is really important to the show. If there is something wrong with the look of the show, that's one of the problems they are going to have but they know that going in. They know that this is something that they have to think about what is really going to look great and be able design shots that look cool.

QUESTION: Do you think in retrospect that creating a look with guys like Owen Roizman (ASC) helps?

ROE: Yes. Every cameraman you ever worked with, whether you know it or not, you pull from whatever experiences you had. You get in a situation and all of a sudden you go, ‘Oh, I remember, Owen did this, Vic did this or Adam Greenberg.’           

QUESTION:  Do you think that people don't really understand yet what cinematographers do? There was an article in Emmy Magazine where they quoted this producer saying, ‘I can put the camera on my shoulder. I don't need a cameraman.’

ROE: They're crazy.

QUESTION:  That's what you do…you put a camera on your shoulder and point it?

ROE: Yeah, but nobody talks about how many phone calls you get at night from new directors. Nobody talks about how many times you talk to producers or how many scripts you read when you go home at night. Nobody talks about the different things you are trying to think on the way to work and figuring out what you have to do to create the look. When you show up on the set, you basically have to know what you want to do. And that's why I think a lot of it is a team effort—a gaffer, a key grip and the camera guys. We all show up and we kind of know what looks good for us and what will work for us, so at least we have a foundation of what we're going to do. Now, figuring out how to do it is a whole different deal. But you're always thinking. It's just a whole process and I don't think a lot of people understand that it's not just putting the camera on your shoulder and doing it. There are other things involved. The special effects people want to do certain things as well.

QUESTION: Do they do a lot of visual effects for The X-Files.

ROE: Oh yeah.

QUESTION: Do you guys do the elements for them or how does that work?

ROE: We do plates and things like that. Our second unit does a lot of stuff too.

QUESTION: So what determines when you're going to do a plate and put somebody on the background versus shooting on location? How much do you typically shoot on location?

ROE: Our location work is usually about six out of eight days, two days on stage, depends on the show but that's probably like an average.

QUESTION: That's a lot then.

ROE: We are on location a lot. The last couple of shows, one day apiece we were on stage. We were out on location for like three weeks.

QUESTION: Is there like a regular colorist on the show?

ROE: The colorist is Tony Smith.

QUESTION: How do you communicate that's what you meant to do because there's so much stuff you do here that's not ordinary?

QUESTION: Tony's been doing it for like two-and-a-half years and he does a great job. And whenever there's a problem or anything, I always call him and I give him my notes

QUESTION:  Do you tell him on the phone or do you go in?

ROE: They give me a continuity sheet and I write on all my notes, I say, ‘make this darker. Watch out for this kind of light. Warm here, this scene is warm.’ Then I ship that out Monday morning and they are actually timing show one right now. We talk to each other once in a while to make sure it's OK, but he does a great job, I mean, we never have a problem.

QUESTION: So that's part of this whole relationship…one of the things that this Emmy article didn’t talk about

QUESTION: Do you think the cast reacts differently when you're on location? When they are shooting in darkness or near darkness, does that affect their performances?

ROE: I think so. I think if it's a light bright shot, it is hot and dirty and dusty, I think it does tend to affect them.

QUESTION: This has got to be grinding work, do you ever get tired of it, you seem really happy.

ROE: Sure I get tired. The whole crew recently got the day off. It was the eighth day of the show. I worked it out with the production that we take the whole day off and second unit starts a day early. It was like our sixth or seventh Friday of coming home at 8:00 in the morning on Saturday and starting at 7:00 Monday morning. So I said, ‘you know, guys, I think we need a break’ and we did it.

QUESTION: That's something you have to do as a cinematographer?

ROE: I think so. It was really funny. I got a lot of phone calls from people that heard about it. Michael Chapman and those guys called me, and said, ‘I can't believe that. That's the greatest thing that I've heard anybody do.’ I thought that was very nice. I think if you don't take care of the crew, it just becomes overwhelming especially on a show like this where we work really long hours. Most of it is at night and there's nothing worse than coming to work at 5:00 at night on stage and working all the way through the night and getting off Saturday morning and we do that a lot.

QUESTION: How do you keep rapport going between yourself as a cinematographer and the cast so they trust you?

ROE: Oh, I don't know. I've always been good around the cast and people and I think you have to be up front with them. I think you have to be honest with them. I don't think you can try to trick them to do this or that. They've been doing it long enough to know what's in it. I have to go and remind them every once in a while to keep the chin up a little bit or that window is where your light is coming from. They are very smart and they know where their marks are and what to do.

QUESTION: Well, that takes some trust?

ROE: I think its trust on both sides, especially on our show where we use flashlights and things like that. I have cards placed around with foil on them and they'll hit those cards and it kind of lights them up a little bit. I think they are very good at it.           

QUESTION: And you're doing this with single camera, multiple cameras?

ROE: We have two camera crews and two Panaflexes and a Steadicam.

QUESTION: Steadicam at the same time, or steadicam as B camera.

ROE: B camera, Steadicam.

QUESTION: So it's the same guy?

ROE: Yes

QUESTION: Is that becoming an important thing for operators to be able to do instead of having to have a second steadicam?

ROE: You're talking to the wrong guy …I have a big theory about that. I love Steadicam guys, they are great and they are good at what they do, but there’s nothing like a really good A camera operator and I believe it's kind of dying away.

QUESTION: What does that mean when you say, ‘really good?’ What's really good?

ROE: Well, somebody that can instantly find composition doesn't have to go to a mark, doesn’t have to figure out what it is. When something happens that is different, to be able to go with it and not think he wasn't going to do that. So what, go there with him. When I moved to operator, it was the most comfortable thing I ever did in my life.

QUESTION: So it isn’t just about shooting according to plan but having the instinct to change at the moment of photography.

ROE: I think a lot of it is the moment of photography. Somebody will come to me and say, ‘listen I want this to be this kind of color or this feel…” If that's what they are feeling, then… Most of the time they leave it up to us, 99.9 percent of the time. They should feel comfortable though to say ‘this is what we want to do.’

QUESTION: Who are they?

ROE: The producers, the director or I'll get a note from somebody. Then we have to work it all out and figure out how to do it, which is the hard part sometimes.

QUESTION: Do you get suggestions for things like that from your crew?

ROE: Sometimes sure, yeah, absolutely. We'll talk about certain kind of lights and how we're going to light things. We never put a light up above, ever.

QUESTION: Because?

ROE: It's just the easy way to do it. It's harder to put them down below, messing with the camera, making it spookier and scarier and things like that. We try to keep away from a down look. I'm not particular fond of a down look so much, but sometimes you have to. I'm not saying ever, but we try to make it look low crossing, where to put the light on the opposite side of the camera. I love to do that when they are looking toward that way. I hate bringing it from the left side or the right side of the camera, of whatever. I hate that.

QUESTION: So, do you can go back into your memory and tap the different guys you have worked with? Do you recall techniques or how they thought?

ROE: Well, I don't know if it's how they thought, but maybe deep down in the back of your mind all of a sudden something will just click in and ‘God, I remember something like that’, or ‘I remember when somebody talked about this.’ Sometimes, while I'm driving to work, I'll say ‘I'm going to try to push it today, really hard, depends on the scene obviously, but really make them dig for it. Really try and push that envelope. One of the things I've also learned with this whole experience with The X Files is that it can't be dark enough and that's one of the things I try to drive into the second unit guys. Pick your moments when you need a light. Let them go dark. Let them be silhouette. Let them be all that stuff and I think the more you push like that the better you become. But also on the other hand we do have telecine too so we can go grab some stuff if it's too bad.

QUESTION: But that doesn't happen very often, does it?

ROE: No. They love it that way. And it's hard because you've been around, guys who've been around a long time on our show, they say need a light here or you need a light there. You know what, I find that the best way to do it, if there is ever a doubt, turn the light off.

QUESTION: I remember Bill Fraker saying once, “you can't tell how dark it is unless there's something bright in the scene.” Is that true?

ROE: Well, it's true in a way that you actually have to see something, whether how bright it is is a whole other story. But I think that you have to have shadows and light. The main thing that I've really looked for a lot is separation. I want to make sure that if the guy is going to be a silhouette, that there is a nice silhouette there. If he's sitting there and there's light and dark, I try to make sure that if I have to light a little piece of furniture behind him so there is some sort of separation, even a ceiling. If we're shooting straight up, we're going to make sure that there's. It can't just be black. There has got to be separation.

QUESTION: And why is that important?

ROE: Because it gives it depth and gives it some sort of feeling that you're not just in limbo. I learned that a lot from Adam (Greenberg) actually. I was watching Adam one time, I'll never forget this, all of a sudden he just turned the light on and hit some carpet and he just hit this carpet. A little streak of light and it made a huge difference, because the carpet was kind of dark.

QUESTION: Where do your crews come from now?  

ROE: A couple of the guys worked on day crew, they were camera assistants and now they are first assistants. Others are recommendations, guys I've known for a long time. I mean, I've known the gaffer and key grip for ten years and asked them to do the show and they loved it.

QUESTION: Has a kind of language developed between you? 

ROE: Oh sure. We all know, when we start to do a show like this where they have such a big look, by working together I think you achieve what you need to handle. I don't think one person can do it by himself. It's impossible. I don't care how good a cameraman you are, you cannot do it all yourself.

QUESTION: Working with multiple cameras on a show like this, does that make lighting even more difficult?

ROE: Well, it certainly makes it challenging in a way but they are very good about it. In certain scenes, we like to keep the camera on a plane. We always have tight overs and wide overs things like that. We need to have people in the frame in the foreground. We try to keep that kind of crunchiness, which I'm a bit fan of. I love it and sometimes we do like a 90-degree single or something like that. Very rarely will we do that because it kind of takes it out of you. It's not like an NYPD Blue where they have that kind of feel where somebody is looking left and the other guy is looking right. This is more of an in-your-face kind of thing, in each other's kind of face.

QUESTION: Tell what you want to get on this show, different mood or…

ROE: This year, actually, we talked about doing The Insider kind of thing where the camera is right over the guy's face. We did that the first couple of shows. We've introduced this new character and we want Scully and him to have this in his face kind of thing. When they have these confrontations, we want to have a little bit of edge on it. Not that we know what it is, it's just something different, just a tweak.

QUESTION:  A little tension?

ROE: Just a little tension.