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“Does
the Camera Almost Do the Cinematography for You?” PROLOGUE: “So, does the camera almost do the cinematography for you?”A reporter for the Los Angeles Times asked Robert Rodriguez that question during an interview about the making of Once Upon a Time in Mexico. The article paraphrased a reply by Rodriguez where he appeared to agree with the premise suggested by the reporter. It also quoted Rodriguez saying that cinematography with film cameras is the art of guessing, and that he only got 60 percent of what he wanted. Two Sony marketing executives were quoted in the same article. One of them observed, “There aren’t many people who are good at guessing in this town (Los Angeles).”The article was published on September 12, 2003. The gist was that with digital imaging technology, directors can just point a camera at the actors, check the monitor and push a button. The Times article sparked an editorial authored by National Guild President George Spiro Dibie, ASC. Basically, Dibie took the editors of the newspaper to task for interviewing vendors about creative issues, and also for not verifying factual claims with authoritative sources. The Times editors ignored an offer to respond, but Rodriguez sent a passionate letter to Dibie. He wrote, “I absolutely share your disappointment in the Times article, but I certainly don’t share your dismay …this sort of lazy reporting simply comes with the territory.”Rodriguez explained that his answer to the question about whether the camera pretty much does the cinematography began with, “No, you still have to light.”That very significant statement was omitted from the Times article. The day after Rodriguez sent his letter, the Guild sponsored a screening of the remake of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre in Los Angeles. The screening was followed by a conversation with Daniel Pearl. The cinematographer discussed his collaboration with director Marcus Nispel, his crew and others who participated in creating painterly images that amplified the emotional content of the story. Pearl’s observations about lighting and collaboration were a glaring contrast to the Times article, which described Rodriguez as an auteur who writes, directs, shoots, edits, and composes music for his films. Rodriguez and Pearl both studied filmmaking at the University of Texas in Austin. They both launched their careers during their early 20s with low-budget films that have become cult classics. For Pearl, it was The Texas Chainsaw Massacre in 1974. For Rodriguez, it was El Mariachi in 1992. They filmed reprises of those movies last year. BACKGROUNDS: Pearl was born in the Bronx and raised in suburban New Jersey. His first film was an 8 mm movie about skateboarding, which he shot and edited at the age of 13. Pearl’s father was an alumnus of the University of Texas. He took his father’s advice and enrolled at that school with undefined plans for the future. Pearl quickly became a film noir fan and got involved in the local filmmaking community. He intuitively focused on cinematography and shot many student films. He launched his career with The Texas Chainsaw Massacre in collaboration with director Tobe Hooper in 1974. They produced that classic film in 16 mm format with a 25-speed color positive film. Pearl followed with a series of some 15 B-movies. His career took a dramatic turn during the dawn of the MTV age. Pearl won the first MTV award for cinematography in 1983 for Every Breath You Take. A few years later, Fortune Magazine called him a major force in the music industry. His body of work includes nearly 20 movies, more than 400 music videos and concert films and some 300 commercials. Rodriguez was born and raised in a large family in San Antonio, Texas.
His mother was a nurse and his father sold cookware. Rodriguez experimented
with making movies using still images taken with a Polaroid camera when
he was 10. A year or two later, he began making little films with an
8 mm camera until his father bought a VHS deck that had a video camera
as an accessory. Rodriguez also played the guitar, saxophone and piano,
and he sketched countless drawings. He began thinking about filmmaking
as a career after seeing Escape from New York when he was 12.
Rodriguez got a job developing and printing still pictures at a photo
shop when he was 15. His boss loaned him a still camera and provided
free film to help him understand what he was selling. Around that time,
Rodriguez read a book about Ansel Adams, which inspired him to study
and master the zone system. He first attracted attention in 1991with
a 16 mm short called Bedhead. The following year, he directed,
shot and was the entire crew on El Mariachi, a 16 mm film that
put him on the map. In 1995, Desperado marked another milestone.
It was the beginning of a four film collaboration with cinematographer
Guillermo Navarro, concluding with the first film in the Spy Kids trilogy
in 2001. QUESTION: Robert, by my count, you have directed six movies that were produced on film, usually with a cinematographer. You have also directed and shot three films yourself in HD format. The Times article quotes you saying that you only got 60 percent of what you wanted when you shot film. I have never interviewed another cinematographer who said they didn’t know what to expect 40 percent of the time. RODRIGUEZ: That quote was taken out of context, and it sounds pretty silly. What I said was that when I was shooting film maybe the focus wouldn’t be quite right at a critical moment, and you couldn’t tell that on the video tap monitor. We’d end up making compromises by not using the take with the best performances or action during editing, because we didn’t see that the focus was soft. Once I started shooting (HD) digital, I didn’t have to make those compromises because I could see what I was getting on the monitor. You can only make that comparison after you’ve shot both formats. PEARL: I have to start by saying our situations are different. Robert is a director who also shoots. I tried that on a few music videos, but found it difficult to give my best efforts to both jobs at the same time. I don’t want to become adversarial, however I feel if you master your craft and have the right crew, what you get on film is very predictable. QUESTION: Robert, how about a specific example to illustrate your point? RODRIGUEZ: When I first operated a Steadicam on film shoots, I couldn’t tell what was going on by looking at the video monitor. For instance, on the original Spy Kids, I did a slow motion shot on location in San Antonio. I couldn’t tell if we got the performances on the monitor, and we didn’t want to come back, so I shot it 17 times. When I was shooting Once Upon a Time in Mexico, I just checked the performances on the HD monitor. If we didn’t have what I wanted, I showed the actors what was needed. PEARL: What about using the video tap monitor on film cameras? RODRIGUEZ: The video tap on a film camera is like looking through a dirty ashtray compared to the HD monitor. PEARL: I have to agree on that, though I think you can usually judge performances. What strikes me is that there were many great films made before there were video taps on cameras. QUESTION: Robert, do you have another anecdote about using the monitor? RODRIGUEZ: There are scenes in Once Upon a Time in Mexico where we dialed in the numbers on the camera to create a chocolate straw look without putting any glass on the lens. I could see exactly what I was getting on the monitor. That’s a big advantage because you end up with a really clear image by not using a glass filter. One set was actually a morgue that was the most ugly blue color you can imagine. I knew I could take the blue out in editing, but I didn’t want to deal with it later. We just dialed it out. It almost looks like a bleach by-pass on that one color and we did it right in the camera. Even though people are wearing different shades of blue, it didn’t affect them. QUESTION: Daniel, that’s an interesting observation, because I remember you telling me a story about using black and infrared light when you shot early music videos because you knew you could manipulate the images in a telecine session. PEARL: There are various ways to get different looks with film, including how you light and expose it, filters, telecine and digital intermediate. On the remake of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, we used a bleach by-pass process on the prints. I think a difference in what we are saying is that Robert uses an HD monitor to judge a scene and what’s needed, and I’ve learned to trust my eye. I pride myself on moving pretty quickly. If I decide we need to drop a scrim into a light, an eye light or a kicker, it only takes a few seconds. It can take a lot longer if people looking at a monitor are second-guessing. RODRIGUEZ: I think the benefits of the HD monitor far outweigh that concern. In a way, the monitor becomes your friend because I can drop the scrim in, look at it both ways and make a comparison. I can see exactly what the differences are. QUESTION: Daniel, I’m wondering, are you seeing that in your mind? PEARL: Yes, I am. Robert and I are different people in different situations. RODRIGUEZ: I’m not saying your film comes back the next day and you are shocked by what you shot, though I could see why people who read the Times article would think that. My point is that it’s not just about lighting and focus. Maybe a costume, makeup or a wig has to be fixed. Instead of working around that in editing, I can see everything on the HD monitor without waiting for dailies. Everything I shoot is usable. QUESTION: What was your first experience working this way? RODRIGUEZ: The first time I did a test was on Spy
Kids in 2001. It was a pick up shot for something we needed to
reshoot because the light level was too low. I brought an HD camera
on the set to see what happened. I wanted to see what it looked like
compared to film. We lit the little girl in Spy Kids with
fill that looked like it’s coming from a glow stick. Guillermo
Navarro was the cinematographer. He was there with his light meter
and it was taking quite a while. I said, let’s get the film camera
out of the way and bring the HD camera in and see what it looks like
on a monitor. Everybody started moving because they could suddenly
see there was too much light bouncing off the bed. I decided that the
HD monitor would give us much more opportunity to try for edgier lighting,
and that we could shoot with confidence and show the actors their performances. QUESTION: What about this notion that has been repeated multiple times in the press that HD saves time because it frees you from having to light? PEARL: Lighting is part of the performance. Actors know how to respond to light and shadows. It allows them to reveal their inner selves. When we were shooting the remake of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, there was a scene where Jessica Biel was wearing a hat. I told her that when she held her head a certain way, she was taking the light out of her eyes, and when she held her head up, her eyes sparkled. That gave her freedom to play with light during her performance. We didn’t need to see it on a monitor. RODRIGUEZ: I’m doing my own cinematography, but I still have to know how to light and do all the things that a cinematographer does. When we were shooting El Mariachi, there was a scene where Antonio Banderas was backlit. He twirled a gun and pointed it at the camera. I took him over to the HD monitor and showed him what happened when he turned his head and caught the light in his eyes. I had 10 good takes out of 10 shots because he could see what he was doing on the monitor. QUESTION: It sounds like you agree to disagree on this issue. PEARL: I was going to ask what happened to Guillermo Navarro? RODRIGUEZ: I did four films with Guillermo (Desperado, Four Rooms, From Dusk Till Dawn and Spy Kids). He was working on something else when I directed my first digital movie (Spy Kids2: Island of Lost Dreams), so I decided to shoot it myself. I loved the fact that I could see exactly what I was getting. It made me go for things that were edgier than I would have attempted with my limited experience lighting film. PEARL: Don’t you miss the collaboration you had with Guillermo? RODRIGUEZ: I really enjoyed working with Guillermo. He took me under his wing and taught me a lot about lighting, finding the look and establishing it early on. In a way, he trained me for the times when he wouldn’t be available. I visualize lighting from the time I put pen to paper and begin to write a script. Usually, it’s something I’ve been planning for months and sometimes for years. I find I get the most out of my sets and my actors, especially if it’s something I’ve written, when I shoot it myself. I do collaborate, but it’s with the cinematographer inside of me instead of someone else. QUESTION: Daniel, do you have anything to add to this topic? PEARL: All performances come down to believability, and everything contributes to that, including the way you light a scene and set. Whether I’m shooting a music video, a commercial or a movie, the directors I’ve worked with want my ideas. RODRIGUEZ: I agree that lighting and performance are tied together. Bad lighting will ruin performances, maybe by showing the audience more than you want them to see. That’s why I find it so important to see what the audience will see while we are shooting because then I can really play with the light and find where the edge is. It’s not like I’ll never work with a cinematographer again. I look forward to it, especially on something that I don’t write. I would welcome a cinematographer’s ideas in the same way that I look forward to working with other composers. That’s how you keep learning. QUESTION: How do you find the right balance between art and commerce? RODRIGUEZ: There’s always going to be that balance between art and commerce. I don’t think that will ever change. I think the stakes have gotten much higher, because of how much money they spend on advertising and promotion, and there is so much competition for audiences today. It’s much riskier putting out a movie these days than it was 10 years ago. I found that lowering the cost of production does two things for me. It forced me to be more creative, and it just gave me a lot of freedom from the studio. Every director will tell you their favorite experience was their first movie because everyone had to pull together and do multiple jobs. It was the most creative times in their lives. I’m trying to make every movie like it’s my first with not enough time and money. PEARL: I agree with that sentiment. It reminds me of a film I shot, Amazon Women on the Moon (1987). We made it with a very small budget with five different directors, John Landis, Joe Dante, Bob Weiss, Peter Horton and Carl Gottlieb. RODRIGUEZ: I loved that movie. Which sequence did you shoot? PEARL: I shot the whole film, working with five different directors. We didn’t have time or money, but we found ways to light each sequence differently because that was important to the story. I am kind of pleased that you thought that the different directors used different cinematographers. That tells me I was doing my job. QUESTION: The thing that inspired this conversation is the similarities in your backgrounds. You both studied filmmaking at the University of Texas in Austin. You both made small films that became cult classics while you were in your early 20s, and both of you made new versions of those films last year. Tell us about yourselves. PEARL: I was born in the Bronx and raised in New Jersey. I went to the University of Texas because of my father, who was an alumnus. He gave me the freedom to make my own decision, but convinced me that it would broaden my outlook. I became a movie fan in Austin, where I mainly saw 16 mm prints of films made by Fellini, Bergman, Kurosawa, etc. There were 20 of us in my first film class, and the instructor told us that it was a closed industry, strictly father and son. He said, if you’re passionate about the cinema, get a masters or doctorate degree and teach film. If you’re lucky and you’re good, you’ll get grants and make films on the weekends or the summer. About half of the class got up, left the room and found another major. We had state of the art 16 mm cameras, a prototype crystal motor, a rudimentary dolly, and a little bit of lighting a equipment. I was cinematographer on our first student film, a black-and-white Western. It turned out really well, and I became a sort of student staff cinematographer very quickly. Ultimately this led to the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which put me in the film business for good. RODRIGUEZ: My story is completely opposite. I was born and raised in Texas in a family with 10 brothers and sisters. I was a daydreamer and bored at school, so I’d draw and doodle and make little flip cartoon movies. When I was 12, I decided to start making actual movies rather than just cartoons using my dad’s Super 8 camera. I remember that it cost $9 to develop two minutes of soundless pictures that were usually out of focus or badly exposed. My dad sold cookware, so he bought a VCR to demonstrate his products. It came with a free video camera and an umbilical cord attached to the VCR. It had a manual iris and focus but you could see what you were doing on the TV set. I shot on weekends and summer breaks, but couldn’t get into the film school for several years until I won a local contest for a film I made. I guess you could say El Mariachi changed my life.
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